Should I buy a Limited instead?

[Dusdaddy]

You read that wrong, I wasn't saying the manufacturer needed to provide a WDH. I'm just saying if a truck requires a brake controller to tow its rated weight then it should ship from the factory like that or the GCWR sticker should be adjusted down accordingly.

GM seems to do the best job with their door stickers, but I suspect even they don't change the GCWR if the truck is shipped without one. They all do it for payload; you put running boards or a bed liner on your truck at the factory and your payload gets bumped down.

There is only one problem with that. How could the manufacturer do that with so many variables on when a controller is required? And when the SAE standard doesn't even test it?

They could declare when a WD hitch is required on the sticker because they know exactly what the hitch they installed is limited to without a WD system

 

[zonedout]

There is only one problem with that. How could the manufacturer do that with so many variables on when a controller is required? And when the SAE standard doesn't even test it?

They could declare when a WD hitch is required on the sticker because they know exactly what the hitch they installed is limited to without a WD system

No difference, the manufacturer knows what's installed on the truck just like they reduce the payload when you add a sunroof. The standard should enforce this, if the manufacturer claims you need a brake controller past (say) 5000 pounds then the standard should say you can only claim 5,000+ pounds towing if your truck is built with the controller. This is what standards are for and good at. You can't claim to follow a standard if you don't meet all the criteria of it, and one of the missing bits of the j2807 appears to be that they don't force a truck to include a brake controller even though the manufacturer knows you need one.

The WDH is similar idea but harder to implement simply because there is so much aftermarket availability of different hitches and we all have our preference, there is no point shipping a WDH with the truck because most of us would replace it. But a brake controller is $100 and easy to install and comes stock from the factory like this, nobody replaces a stock controller with aftermarket.

 

[Fightnfire]

Too many unknowns/variables legally for manus to get in the WD or even the requirement of one game. I think a sticker, similar to GMs, should be mandated on all vehicles with a towing hitch or manufacturer tow rating. As it stands now a lot of vehicles can't realistically tow their max tow rating because it consumes too much of the payload rating.

They provide the max tongue weight, payload, max trailer weight and GCVWR and leave it to the end user to make the math work. Some break it down to conventional or gooseneck/5th wheel.

As for WD hitches I won't tow my trailer without one but it's 29' tall sides and 6500lbs. I know a few truck drivers who won't use one on their 3/4 ton or even 1/2 because "it's not needed."

It's an interesting topic with no right answer.

 

[testerdahl]

I thought the j2807 tests were to be conducted with trailers without brakes? I remember somebody bitching about that on some video.

And I see no reason the manufacturer needs to even offer a WD hitch as an option. They just need to clearly state at what weight it needs to be used before exceeding the stock hitches limit.

I’ve never asked that question about J2807 and trailer brake controller. Is this something I should ask about?

 

[testerdahl]

Too many unknowns/variables legally for manus to get in the WD or even the requirement of one game. I think a sticker, similar to GMs, should be mandated on all vehicles with a towing hitch or manufacturer tow rating. As it stands now a lot of vehicles can't realistically tow their max tow rating because it consumes too much of the payload rating.

They provide the max tongue weight, payload, max trailer weight and GCVWR and leave it to the end user to make the math work. Some break it down to conventional or gooseneck/5th wheel.

As for WD hitches I won't tow my trailer without one but it's 29' tall sides and 6500lbs. I know a few truck drivers who won't use one on their 3/4 ton or even 1/2 because "it's not needed."

It's an interesting topic with no right answer.

HUGE fan of the GM sticker. I’ve talked about it so much I feel like I’m a broken record.

 

[Fightnfire]

HUGE fan of the GM sticker. I’ve talked about it so much I feel like I’m a broken record.

You're not the only one, I would have thought the years of praise from everyone would have forced Ford and RAM to do something similar.

 

[zonedout]

The sticker is a great thing, no question. For 2500 and 3500 its much more useful.

But in reality with 1500's we're all limited by GVWR anyway. There is no real need to sweat about what we can tow, we can only carry 1500 pounds (on average, some more, some less). Realistically its a hard limit to 8000 pounds or less depending on the size/weight of our familys.

 

[Fightnfire]

The sticker is a great thing, no question. For 2500 and 3500 its much more useful.

But in reality with 1500's we're all limited by GVWR anyway. There is no real need to sweat about what we can tow, we can only carry 1500 pounds (on average, some more, some less). Realistically its a hard limit to 8000 pounds or less depending on the size/weight of our familys.

Something I wish more people understood. My father in-law flat out doesn't believe me/understand that his RAM is overloaded all the time when he tows. Like many he doesn't understand how payload works when trailering. He also didn't understand why the towing capacity advertised is only achieved in lower trim trucks, not the limited.

 

[zonedout]

Something I wish more people understood. My father in-law flat out doesn't believe me/understand that his RAM is overloaded all the time when he tows. Like many he doesn't understand how payload works when trailering. He also didn't understand why the towing capacity advertised is only achieved in lower trim trucks, not the limited.

I've met a lot of Ford buyers like " I can tow 13,000 pounds with my F150!" Sure you can, if you like to wiggle your bum down the freeway.

 

[Fightnfire]

I've met a lot of Ford buyers like " I can tow 13,000 pounds with my F150!" Sure you can, if you like to wiggle your bum down the freeway.

Or have your 100lb teenager drive it with nothing esle in it lol...

 

[Dusdaddy]

The sticker should be more plainly written and that should be part of the J2807.
Something to the point of:

Max trailer weight w/o brakes xxx lbs.
Max trailer weight w/o WD hitch xxx lbs.
Max trailer weight with both xxx lbs.

But they hide that simple data.

 

[Dusdaddy]

No difference, the manufacturer knows what's installed on the truck just like they reduce the payload when you add a sunroof. The standard should enforce this, if the manufacturer claims you need a brake controller past (say) 5000 pounds then the standard should say you can only claim 5,000+ pounds towing if your truck is built with the controller. This is what standards are for and good at. You can't claim to follow a standard if you don't meet all the criteria of it, and one of the missing bits of the j2807 appears to be that they don't force a truck to include a brake controller even though the manufacturer knows you need one.

The WDH is similar idea but harder to implement simply because there is so much aftermarket availability of different hitches and we all have our preference, there is no point shipping a WDH with the truck because most of us would replace it. But a brake controller is $100 and easy to install and comes stock from the factory like this, nobody replaces a stock controller with aftermarket.

Your problem is the fact that you can have a braked trailer without a controller. And that's why J2807 does not address it. Too many variations of trailer systems. But they should spell out what your truck can handle with an unbraked trailer. For example, the 2024 Toyota Tacoma says the max weight of a trailer without brakes is 1000 lbs. A far cry from its max of 6400 lbs. They also state that sway control is necessary over 2K lbs., and WDH is required over 5K lbs. All of this buried in the manual instead of on the sticker in the door jamb. But at least they list it out.

 

[zonedout]

Your problem is the fact that you can have a braked trailer without a controller. And that's why J2807 does not address it. Too many variations of trailer systems. But they should spell out what your truck can handle with an unbraked trailer. For example, the 2024 Toyota Tacoma says the max weight of a trailer without brakes is 1000 lbs. A far cry from its max of 6400 lbs. They also state that sway control is necessary over 2K lbs., and WDH is required over 5K lbs. All of this buried in the manual instead of on the sticker in the door jamb. But at least they list it out.

There are some smaller trailers that come with their own surge brakes, but you won't find them on many common trailers, not large ones anyway which is where the brake controller is needed most.

The point is, many require the truck to have one, so therefore it should be part of the standard/rating. It costs manufacturers pennies to throw them in, many trailers require them, just wrap it up in the standard.