I just watched a video from Steve Lehto about car companies spying on owners. He's pretty PO'd about it...as am I. It seems like a bad trend in about every aspect of our lives. I didn't realize that car companies could even do facial scans! I guess that's part of the self driving stuff. Seems like the spying will never end. It would be nice if all the journalists asked the car makers if they do this.
Car companies spying on owners
- Thread starter duggydo
- Start date
Fightnfire
Moderator
I'm probably the outlier here on this but I don't care. I don't understand why other people care.
I own a laptop, smartphone, smartwatch, smart tv, I use multiple streaming services, home security, debit cards, credit cards, have a couple social media account.. all of these things "spy" on us constantly and report data out. That's not including all of the public information about the house I own, land, taxes etc.
I own a laptop, smartphone, smartwatch, smart tv, I use multiple streaming services, home security, debit cards, credit cards, have a couple social media account.. all of these things "spy" on us constantly and report data out. That's not including all of the public information about the house I own, land, taxes etc.
Good for you. Most people probably don't like it though.
GMT 900
Well-known member
From my reply in the similar thread:
Of course, most Americans freely give up their personnel data to Alphabet, Meta, and the CCP, err, Tik Tok, so no biggy.
Remember the Colorado and Canyons bricking up because of a bad OTA update? Hmm, what if they don't want you to drive it because a subscription fee wasn't paid or their captive finance arm wants it immobilized for easy repo?
Or maybe, somebody WANTS you to be driving:
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/
Wonder how far technology has advanced in the interim, especially when people just keep hitting "Yes" on those big beautiful screens that allow OTH control...
As Fightnfire correctly stated, so much of the data is already out there and so much of many people's data has been voluntarily provided by the owner themselves!
The question is, control. Don't pay for subscription? Feature turned off...The start of a slippery slope on post purchase vehicle access?
Of course, most Americans freely give up their personnel data to Alphabet, Meta, and the CCP, err, Tik Tok, so no biggy.
Remember the Colorado and Canyons bricking up because of a bad OTA update? Hmm, what if they don't want you to drive it because a subscription fee wasn't paid or their captive finance arm wants it immobilized for easy repo?
Or maybe, somebody WANTS you to be driving:
https://www.wired.com/2015/07/hackers-remotely-kill-jeep-highway/
Wonder how far technology has advanced in the interim, especially when people just keep hitting "Yes" on those big beautiful screens that allow OTH control...
As Fightnfire correctly stated, so much of the data is already out there and so much of many people's data has been voluntarily provided by the owner themselves!
The question is, control. Don't pay for subscription? Feature turned off...The start of a slippery slope on post purchase vehicle access?
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So this blew up over the last few days while I was at the Ranger event. And yes I’ve seen Steve Lehto’s channel, but not his video.
I can tell you journalists are livid over this news. There’s going to be blowback for sure.
I can tell you journalists are livid over this news. There’s going to be blowback for sure.
GMT 900
Well-known member
Not sure the blowback will be enough...From the IPO of Facebook on, the monetization of information has marched on and morphed into so many different permutations. It is hard to enforce restrictions when so many voluntarily give away their personal information.
Fightnfire
Moderator
That's what I was alluding too earlier, we all choose to give it away for free with every TOS or EULA we sign.
chaseydog
Well-known member
I'm having a hard time lumping this in with the knowledge that I'm already giving away a lot of information to Google, Amazon, etc. My understanding is that information, by and large, is being used to target adds, and I've come to accept that as part of the cost of being online.
The vehicle information seems a bit more specific, and if it was just being used for adds, I wouldn’t have such an issue with it. I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept it the same way I accept Amazon and Google.
Using my vehicle information to determine how much my insurance will cost is more troubling, particularly when I was never told it would be used that way.
I'm also troubled that parameters such as hard braking are being reported but there's no guidance on how that data point is being measured. What constitutes hard braking? If I'm backing up at 2 mph and hit the brakes so I'd don't bump the curb is that considered hard braking? Point is we don't know.
The vehicle information seems a bit more specific, and if it was just being used for adds, I wouldn’t have such an issue with it. I wouldn't like it, but I'd accept it the same way I accept Amazon and Google.
Using my vehicle information to determine how much my insurance will cost is more troubling, particularly when I was never told it would be used that way.
I'm also troubled that parameters such as hard braking are being reported but there's no guidance on how that data point is being measured. What constitutes hard braking? If I'm backing up at 2 mph and hit the brakes so I'd don't bump the curb is that considered hard braking? Point is we don't know.
Sounds Iike I should do a video on this just explaining the news. I don’t have any answers, but if you guys are talking about it here, it seems like a worthwhile topic.
chaseydog
Well-known member
I've since opted out of OnStar Smart Driver but here is a screenshot of my data up to that point. The app is showing 67 hard brakes over the course of 700 miles. The only one that I would consider a hard brake is when someone cut behind me in a parking lot when I was backing up. I was moving under 5 mph when it happened. I have no idea what the other hard brakes were. The 3.7% without a seat belt, all in my driveway.
Feel free to use the screenshot in a video if you do one.
Thank you!
Yep. I'm with you. No surprising news here to me. I've read the Privacy Notices and I know they cannot divulge my personal info without specific consent provided by me above the basic consent I gave to use their systems. The main consent is just data without names. No different than every security camera in every business you walk into. To provide any telematic services, they need to collect this data. You can easily opt out of any of it you want by contacting the brand services. Granted, certain systems may be disabled like locking/unlocking your car by cell phone. They cannot verify it's you without knowing your cell phone data. To me, it's nothing compared to what we allow the social media sites from collecting.
Here's the video. Also interesting is my friends at GM-trucks.com opted OUT of the Onstar Smart Driver program only to learn they had been automatically opted IN. That's not ok.
Well, that's one benefit of the subscription stuff like Toyotas. Don't pay and they don't connect so no info is given. Just during the "free time".
One question I have on this video. Has anyone shown that that they have sold personal info? I mean like your name, address, etc. and driving habits? I find that one a stretch without specific consent above and beyond what you consented to for use of the system. General info like 40% of GMC owners are hard on brakes, I get. But not Tim Esterdahl is hard on brakes. That's what I want to know, did they cross that line? Even Steve's video was vague on that.
Fightnfire
Moderator
I just went and checked "myGMC" app I don't pay to subscribe to any content including data, crash detection, Onstar etc. The Onstar Smart Driver program is not set up and contains no data of mine. If people haven't set it up, or opted out and it's being sent out of house then I understand their issue. Keep in mind, collecting data is one thing selling it when opted out is another.
My guess is they opted out of the program but in the TOS or EULA just by having it you grant permission to collect data. I would be surprised if that data was being sold and not just collected.
I also just double checked the app, just by using the app and not subscribing to anything you are agreeing to the "User terms for application services" and "Privacy statement" I'm not going to read through it right now.
My guess is they opted out of the program but in the TOS or EULA just by having it you grant permission to collect data. I would be surprised if that data was being sold and not just collected.
I also just double checked the app, just by using the app and not subscribing to anything you are agreeing to the "User terms for application services" and "Privacy statement" I'm not going to read through it right now.
Fightnfire
Moderator
That's exactly where my head was at. See my previous post.
Yep. Data is a lot different than personal info.