3rd Gen Engine Failures

M

Mattedfred

New member
Thanks for letting me join this forum.
I just recently found out about it.
Respectfully, I’m interested in learning more about the engine failures affecting some of my fellow 3rd Gen owners.
I’m also curious as to why it has garnered such little attention from automotive journalists.

www.tundras.com

OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Questionnaire Results - 03/30/24

[ATTACH] FORM UPDATE - MARCH 30, 2024 @ 2:00pm Central CURRENT AVG MILEAGE @ FAILURE - 28,849 (46,428 KM) TOYOTA V35A-FTS (TYPE '21) ENGINE FAILURES...
www.tundras.com www.tundras.com
 
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Mattedfred said:
Thanks for letting me join this forum.
I just recently found out about it.
Respectfully, I’m interested in learning more about the engine failures affecting some of my fellow 3rd Gen owners.
I’m also curious as to why it has garnered such little attention from automotive journalists.

www.tundras.com

OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Questionnaire Results - 03/30/24

[ATTACH] FORM UPDATE - MARCH 30, 2024 @ 2:00pm Central CURRENT AVG MILEAGE @ FAILURE - 28,849 (46,428 KM) TOYOTA V35A-FTS (TYPE '21) ENGINE FAILURES...
www.tundras.com www.tundras.com
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This is the first I've heard about this specific issue with the Tundra, a quick google search tells me it'a hot topic amongst owners but not a very widespread issue and has potential fixes. This reminds me of the lifter issues with the GM twins, I own one. It's concerning but I haven't seen a single complete answer on why the lifters are failing. Everyone has their opinion/speculation, Tim here speculates it's an isolated bad batch of lifters. Other people are adamant the lifter design itself is bad when combined with cylinder deactivation and other blame oil pumps and oil change cycles. GM, and it looks like Toyota, have failed to give a clear answer on the topic or issue a recall.

On things like this it's extremely hard to judge just how common the problem is because so many people make "noise" and then the owners of other trucks use it to bash the brand. Typical Ford, Chevy, Ram, Toyota stuff.

I would assume there aren't videos by mainsgtream Youtube personality's because they can't get any details of how widespread the issue is and what is causing it so at best it would be a speculation video. I tend to believe it facts were available it would be covered by most reputable reviewers and journalists. I know there is some history of automakers being upset by a specific journalist and witholding vehicles from that channel (Subaru and TFL, Tesla and OG Top Gear) so coming at the situation with facts is best...and they're just aren't many available.
 
Fightnfire said:
This is the first I've heard about this specific issue with the Tundra, a quick google search tells me it'a hot topic amongst owners but not a very widespread issue and has potential fixes. This reminds me of the lifter issues with the GM twins, I own one. It's concerning but I haven't seen a single complete answer on why the lifters are failing. Everyone has their opinion/speculation, Tim here speculates it's an isolated bad batch of lifters. Other people are adamant the lifter design itself is bad when combined with cylinder deactivation and other blame oil pumps and oil change cycles. GM, and it looks like Toyota, have failed to give a clear answer on the topic or issue a recall.

On things like this it's extremely hard to judge just how common the problem is because so many people make "noise" and then the owners of other trucks use it to bash the brand. Typical Ford, Chevy, Ram, Toyota stuff.

I would assume there aren't videos by mainsgtream Youtube personality's because they can't get any details of how widespread the issue is and what is causing it so at best it would be a speculation video. I tend to believe it facts were available it would be covered by most reputable reviewers and journalists. I know there is some history of automakers being upset by a specific journalist and witholding vehicles from that channel (Subaru and TFL, Tesla and OG Top Gear) so coming at the situation with facts is best...and they're just aren't many available.
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Thats why members on another forum are attempting to gather those facts, as you can see from the Google document.
Are any journalists even asking Toyota about this?
They speculate about all kinds of things in their videos all the time.
One would think it would be a hot topic for current owners and also people that hated the affected brand. Good click bait.
 
Mattedfred said:
Thats why members on another forum are attempting to gather those facts, as you can see from the Google document.
Are any journalists even asking Toyota about this?
They speculate about all kinds of things in their videos all the time.
One would think it would be a hot topic for current owners and also people that hated the affected brand. Good click bait.
Click to expand...

I would be more curious to see true numbers of engine failures across all makes and models as a percentage of vehicles purchased. Then, the journalists could attack the outliers. That's the problem as I see it, we don't know how many Tundra engines have failed. Or, how many GM engines actually failed due to lifters.
 
Mattedfred said:
Thats why members on another forum are attempting to gather those facts, as you can see from the Google document.
Are any journalists even asking Toyota about this?
They speculate about all kinds of things in their videos all the time.
One would think it would be a hot topic for current owners and also people that hated the affected brand. Good click bait.
Click to expand...
Oh I'm sure every journalist has asked questions about it. Hell, Tim asked Chevy about a diff vent line that some yahoo did a video on. He got an answer. And I'm betting the answer for the Tundra case would be the same, "It's not engineered to fail, and we've tested it thoroughly". What else can they say? But Toyota is not stupid, you can damn well bet they are tearing shit apart to find out if it is in fact a design failure or what. If it is, they'll fix it.
 
Mattedfred said:
Thats why members on another forum are attempting to gather those facts, as you can see from the Google document.
Are any journalists even asking Toyota about this?
They speculate about all kinds of things in their videos all the time.
One would think it would be a hot topic for current owners and also people that hated the affected brand. Good click bait.
Click to expand...
According to that .doc file there were only 45 people who replied to the survey. Not exactly an overwhelming amount considering how many Tundras were sold in the last two years. Yes, there may be many who didn't add their info but they sold over 200K trucks, didn't they? Even 100 failures are less than .1%. May be a part batch issue but doesn't look big enough to be a design issue.
 
Dusdaddy said:
According to that .doc file there were only 45 people who replied to the survey. Not exactly an overwhelming amount considering how many Tundras were sold in the last two years. Yes, there may be many who didn't add their info but they sold over 200K trucks, didn't they? Even 100 failures are less than .1%. May be a part batch issue but doesn't look big enough to be a design issue.
Click to expand...

That's the story of the internet, 45 people can make a lot of noise.
 
The best the community could find out at the prevailing theory from multiple rumors (Post from anonymous dealer techs etc):

There was a shift at the Alabama plant that was improperly cleaning the blocks meaning that some metal shavings may have been left in the oil passages, because of this the main bearing gets starved of oil and eventually spins out. There is nothing the owner can do its just a ticking time bomb. Allegedly the mistake was found and somewhere in the June 2023 time frame the procedure was corrected.

The community has some valid concerns. One the amount is low, but they all pretty much had the same problem (Bearing spun out) The amount of community members is low, but the ratio between them and the overall population of 3rd gen owner registered in the forum (Maybe 1000 or so) is very high. The same forum has only a handful of complaints about turbo failure yet that problem was widely covered all over the place.

Also the stories from the users has changed recently as the amount of resistance the owner are receiving from Toyota and Dealers is a lot lighter, they are pretty much replacing the motors right away with little fanfare where as the first set often reported going to the ringer. Suggesting is more a known issue.
 
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Mattedfred said:
Thanks for letting me join this forum.
I just recently found out about it.
Respectfully, I’m interested in learning more about the engine failures affecting some of my fellow 3rd Gen owners.
I’m also curious as to why it has garnered such little attention from automotive journalists.

www.tundras.com

OFFICIAL: MY22+ Toyota Tundra V35A-FTS (Type '21) Engine Failure Questionnaire Results - 03/30/24

[ATTACH] FORM UPDATE - MARCH 30, 2024 @ 2:00pm Central CURRENT AVG MILEAGE @ FAILURE - 28,849 (46,428 KM) TOYOTA V35A-FTS (TYPE '21) ENGINE FAILURES...
www.tundras.com www.tundras.com
Click to expand...
Ok, you got my attention. I'll do a video ASAP and I replied to the thread over there. Also replied to the "Tim's an ass kisser" comment as well. LOL
 
testerdahl said:
Ok, you got my attention. I'll do a video ASAP and I replied to the thread over there. Also replied to the "Tim's an ass kisser" comment as well. LOL
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Respectfully, are you planning to produce a video where you just talk about what we already know and offer your opinion or are you going to at least attempt to use your automotive journalism expertise and industry connections to seek any answers from anyone in the know before producing any video?
 
Mattedfred said:
Respectfully, are you planning to produce a video where you just talk about what we already know and offer your opinion or are you going to at least attempt to use your automotive journalism expertise and industry connections to seek any answers from anyone in the know before producing any video?
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I find it hard to believe anybody is going to give you or any other Toyota owner the answer they are looking for because the only answer you want to hear is a major mistake by Toyota that involves a recall on certain third gen engines and that's just not going to happen at the rate of which the problem is being experienced.

Toyota is known for better reliability but they are the same if not worse than the big three when it comes to owning up to issues or mistakes. It took lawsuits to get rusted out frames covered and they never admitted or really addressed the issue with the third Gen powertrain. They offered transmission flashes that did nothing to solve the problem. It wasn't a problem that could be solved it was just a poor design and pairing.

If there is truly a problem the answer will come from third party mechanics that get their hands on the destroyed engines which is unlikely because most of those will go to and through the dealerships.

It's the same issue as I said above as the GM lifter issue, it's been going on longer has affected more engines and there are no answers, just speculation.
 
Mattedfred said:
Respectfully, are you planning to produce a video where you just talk about what we already know and offer your opinion or are you going to at least attempt to use your automotive journalism expertise and industry connections to seek any answers from anyone in the know before producing any video?
Click to expand...
It is a good question and glad you asked. I was just thinking about how to do this video while making some lunch. I like to kind of play it out in my head and think about everything I want to say as well as think about what the comments are going to be like.

I'll ask my industry friends off the record for their thoughts. Toyota will never go on record. The only way I've gotten people to go on record is when I'm with them in person at an event. Side note that's what made the 1794 video so good IMO is that I was able to get Jay to go on record about the seat issue.

Fun fact, I have photos of the new part they developed to fix the issue, but Toyota won't confirm or deny that part exists even after I send them a picture. Crazy right? I literally have the photo of their part but they won't confirm or deny it.
 
I think generally the avg owner would like to know if they were affected by something that could give them a higher chance of having an engine failure.

What specifically I think Toyota could do better:

1) They should streamline the engine replacement process and develop kits that save parts and labor costs. The users are posting quotes for 32k for an engine replacement out of warranty. That just seems really crazy.

2) They should work to make sure the owners who have the unfortunate happen make sure they aren't fighting dealers about warranty denies, lack of loaners, and excessive backorders/parts.
 
rlc177 said:
I think generally the avg owner would like to know if they were affected by something that could give them a higher chance of having an engine failure.

What specifically I think toyota could do better:

1) They should streamline the engine replacement process and develop kits that save parts and labor costs. The users are posting quotes for 32k for an engine replacement out of warranty. That just seems really crazy.

2) They should work to make sure the owners who have the unfortunate happen make sure they aren't fighting dealers about warranty denies, lack of loaners, and excessive backorders/parts.
Click to expand...

I agree but as I said before doing anything like that means they would have to admit there is a problem which opens the door for litigation among other things.
 
I just want to follow up here to say my contacts aren't saying a thing. I've emailed corporate and am awaiting a response. I'm also currently thinking through how I could do a video on this and combine it with some other issues.
 
I think if you do a story or a mention in a podcast, you could mention that there are people having legit failures and the best we can see people that take care of their trucks. The other point that's worth talking about is the cost of an engine replacement people getting quoted 32k and is that normal across the other brands?

As far as "common" problems even the tundra community can be a bit lost as to what defines a common problem or not. Sometimes some of the gripes are maybe more minor, but bigger because of the overall price hike of the truck over the past few years. I.E. This is ok on a 40K truck but not ok on a 70K truck.

I think the main thing is Toyota has been a bit too quiet on what they are looking into and what might be common. The main thing they are equally quiet to their dealers which is a frustrating for both dealers and owners. Basically Toyota sends you to the service department and they don't know about any issues and these are all software or design issues that a dealer really can't fix.

It drives us to the forums so we can talk about it and see what might be known. Often Toyota hides fixes behind TSB's that unless you know about the TSB its hard to get a dealer to fix something. Sure they are available on NHSTA, but only after a 3 or 4 monthly delay.

My personal list of issues that Toyota seems too quiet:

Gas gauge issues getting stuck on full tank. (Partially fixed TSB that doesn't apply to everyone)
Factory Alignment issues with tire wear (New alignment specs quietly updated in tech data, but no tsb or tech tip)
Wind Noise Concerns (Possible part fixes but no TSB or tech Tip)
Something with Throttle and hesitation from Rolling or slow stops (Partially fixed TSB that doesn't apply to everyone)
The seat panel cracking (No TSB or Tech Tip)

Also the fuel line recall was handled poorly, My main beef was the lack of any information to the dealers before a fix was available in Dec 2023. Not any information so a dealer could check the affected area's for wear to advise the owner if they were more at risk or starting to have wear. The only thing they said was basically park the truck if you are worried. Even the community had to speculate where the issue might be and many members were trying to at least check their trucks.
 
And this is why I stopped buying Toyota products for "reliability" and got tired of having to pay the Toyota tax.

If you scratch hard enough, you see that Toyota has tons of problems and will quietly solve them or completely ignore them and leave the consumer to fix it on their own. They are doing the same thing than any other big automakers.

And the Toyota tax when buying is unreal. In Canada, the Toyota finance rate are so bad that a 65k Tundra is going to cost you more than a 75K truck from Ford or GM since the difference in interest rate is so high. Not to mention you would be missing out on all of the extra features that comes with the 10K price difference.
 
TheDo114 said:
And this is why I stopped buying Toyota products for "reliability" and got tired of having to pay the Toyota tax.

If you scratch hard enough, you see that Toyota has tons of problems and will quietly solve them or completely ignore them and leave the consumer to fix it on their own. They are doing the same thing than any other big automakers.

And the Toyota tax when buying is unreal. In Canada, the Toyota finance rate are so bad that a 65k Tundra is going to cost you more than a 75K truck from Ford or GM since the difference in interest rate is so high. Not to mention you would be missing out on all of the extra features that comes with the 10K price difference.
Click to expand...
That’s why I paid cash for my 3rd Gen.
 
TheDo114 said:
Yeah, the past few years with 0 to 1% interest rate, it wasn't worth paying cash but now that interest rate are getting higher, it's looking interesting again.
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I don't think cash talks nearly as much as it used to. Interest rate saving definitely makes sense but from the dealers perspective it's been a long time since cash got you the best deal.
 
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