What new truck to buy for 20+ years

testerdahl

testerdahl

Administrator
Staff member
From my inbox: "I am finally looking to buy my first Full Size Truck...but am really struggling with which brand to choose.

I really like the 2020 - 2024 RAM 1500 Laramie for its reported ride comfort and interior quietness per Consumer Reports and other sources. It also looks sharp on the inside. I have no experience driving a RAM, so I am unsure about its long-term reliability and owner satisfaction - given it's not the top selling truck on the market.

I am also looking at the 2024 F-150 Lariat - mainly due to the refreshed front / rear end and pro power outlets. I prefer the interior of the RAM, but Ford sells more F-150s, so there is something to consider there.

If you could only buy one of these Full Size Trucks and drive it for 20+ years...which one would you go with?"

My response:

This is a pretty common question for me and it is basically impossible to answer. Why? I like all trucks, for different reasons, and long-term reliability is often more about proper maintenance and luck than a certain brand.

I mean, the most reliable truck on the market for the past decade has been the Toyota Tundra and the least reliable has been the Ram 1500. However, I've seen numerous Tundra trucks with issues and I've talked with many satisfied Ram 1500 owners.

Interestingly, in the past 2 years, we've seen Ram finishing higher in quality studies than the Tundra. Why? Is it major engine failures and catastrophic issues?! Not really. Instead, it is often technology issues like the phone not connecting via bluetooth or a random dash light.

Consumer Reports has said this in their various website posts on reliability. They point to large sedans as being the most reliable vehicle on the road. Why? Automakers haven't updated them with new technology which makes them more reliable. If you go along with that thinking, you should go buy an old Crown Vic and drive it until it dies. I've done that kind of thinking and sorry, that's just about the most boring way to live I've ever heard of.

My thinking is if you want to find problems with every major truck on the market, you'll find it if you look long enough.

Let's next discuss sales results as a measure of a truck's popularity with consumers. Sorry, that's just not a good way to look at things. Why? Commercial fleets. For GM and Ford, they get half of their annual sales or better from commercial businesses. Those businesses want to buy the same brand of truck with the same features every year or three years if they leased them. Their mechanics know how to work on them, what typically breaks for them and they keep parts on hand to service them. They don't care about anything a consumer cares about.

So, should you buy the Ford or the Ram? It sounds like you like the Ram overall and the pro power onboard feature of the Ford. I had the Ford with the pro power onboard and I really liked that feature. I also really like Ram's styling.

The question then is form versus function. Unfortunately, I can't make that decision for you since it comes down to your personal preference. Hope that helps.
 
testerdahl said:
From my inbox: "I am finally looking to buy my first Full Size Truck...but am really struggling with which brand to choose.

I really like the 2020 - 2024 RAM 1500 Laramie for its reported ride comfort and interior quietness per Consumer Reports and other sources. It also looks sharp on the inside. I have no experience driving a RAM, so I am unsure about its long-term reliability and owner satisfaction - given it's not the top selling truck on the market.

I am also looking at the 2024 F-150 Lariat - mainly due to the refreshed front / rear end and pro power outlets. I prefer the interior of the RAM, but Ford sells more F-150s, so there is something to consider there.

If you could only buy one of these Full Size Trucks and drive it for 20+ years...which one would you go with?"

My response:

This is a pretty common question for me and it is basically impossible to answer. Why? I like all trucks, for different reasons, and long-term reliability is often more about proper maintenance and luck than a certain brand.

I mean, the most reliable truck on the market for the past decade has been the Toyota Tundra and the least reliable has been the Ram 1500. However, I've seen numerous Tundra trucks with issues and I've talked with many satisfied Ram 1500 owners.

Interestingly, in the past 2 years, we've seen Ram finishing higher in quality studies than the Tundra. Why? Is it major engine failures and catastrophic issues?! Not really. Instead, it is often technology issues like the phone not connecting via bluetooth or a random dash light.

Consumer Reports has said this in their various website posts on reliability. They point to large sedans as being the most reliable vehicle on the road. Why? Automakers haven't updated them with new technology which makes them more reliable. If you go along with that thinking, you should go buy an old Crown Vic and drive it until it dies. I've done that kind of thinking and sorry, that's just about the most boring way to live I've ever heard of.

My thinking is if you want to find problems with every major truck on the market, you'll find it if you look long enough.

Let's next discuss sales results as a measure of a truck's popularity with consumers. Sorry, that's just not a good way to look at things. Why? Commercial fleets. For GM and Ford, they get half of their annual sales or better from commercial businesses. Those businesses want to buy the same brand of truck with the same features every year or three years if they leased them. Their mechanics know how to work on them, what typically breaks for them and they keep parts on hand to service them. They don't care about anything a consumer cares about.

So, should you buy the Ford or the Ram? It sounds like you like the Ram overall and the pro power onboard feature of the Ford. I had the Ford with the pro power onboard and I really liked that feature. I also really like Ram's styling.

The question then is form versus function. Unfortunately, I can't make that decision for you since it comes down to your personal preference. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
 
That’s been my $64,000 question, too. I’m 2-3 years from retirement, hoping to buy a pontoon boat, something with a solid, planted feel, more v-8 power than I’d ever need, something me and my two dogs can ride around in and that I can count on to last. Nothing against F-150, but I’ve been driving Fords for almost 30 years and want something different. I love the idea of a Silverado with the 6.2, but I read about lifter failures and GM dealers being dodgy about fixing it. I love the Ram exterior and interior, flat loading floor in the back, and the sound of the Hemi, but I read about the “Hemi tick” and other Stellantis quality problems. The new Tundras look plasticky and hard to access the bed. I like the Titans, but worry about Nissan being around in the future. If I had to make a choice tomorrow, I think it’d be down to a last gen Tundras or a new Ram; like everything about them and the stories about the million mile Tundras sound like just the peace of mind I’d want for how trucks cost any more. Not only that, but a nice used 2020 is 2/3 the cost of any new truck, BUT… that gas mileage sounds worse than anything out there.

I”d just hate to work and save as long as I have been, buy a new truck, have a terrible experience with it, then eat the depreciation to get out of it.
 
C46 said:
That’s been my $64,000 question, too. I’m 2-3 years from retirement, hoping to buy a pontoon boat, something with a solid, planted feel, more v-8 power than I’d ever need, something me and my two dogs can ride around in and that I can count on to last. Nothing against F-150, but I’ve been driving Fords for almost 30 years and want something different. I love the idea of a Silverado with the 6.2, but I read about lifter failures and GM dealers being dodgy about fixing it. I love the Ram exterior and interior, flat loading floor in the back, and the sound of the Hemi, but I read about the “Hemi tick” and other Stellantis quality problems. The new Tundras look plasticky and hard to access the bed. I like the Titans, but worry about Nissan being around in the future. If I had to make a choice tomorrow, I think it’d be down to a last gen Tundras or a new Ram; like everything about them and the stories about the million mile Tundras sound like just the peace of mind I’d want for how trucks cost any more. Not only that, but a nice used 2020 is 2/3 the cost of any new truck, BUT… that gas mileage sounds worse than anything out there.

I”d just hate to work and save as long as I have been, buy a new truck, have a terrible experience with it, then eat the depreciation to get out of it.
Click to expand...
Shopping for a new truck is stressful. It should be fun, but then the internet gets involved and you read all sorts of horror stories. I wish I could get GM or Ram on the record as saying they fixed the lifter issue or the Hemi tick. It just doesn’t happen unless I get the rare chance to interview an engineer at some random event. Corporate PR won’t issue a statement since I guess it makes them liable in court as admitting they did have a problem and/or if someone has the same problem after they announced they fixed it, it puts them in an awkward spot.

With that said, I believe the lifter issue was a bad batch of parts from a supplier and they fixed the issue. I also believe the Hemi tick has been addressed with a fx AND the Hemi V-8 going away. Easy fix discontinuing the engine. LOL

I’m glad you brought up the Tundra bed entry issue. I was pretty furious about that one and I’m glad I am not alone.

I’ll have a new video to bring you on the new 2025 Ram 1500 late Feb or early March. First drive program is mid February. Maybe that will help your decision making.
 
It's tough looking at the new trucks today. The hard part for me is realizing how fast they will change after I get one. But twenty years of ownership? Wow, that'd be tough. Maybe as a third vehicle used exclusively on 1 weekend a month during the summer only. I but it because I wanna drive it.

I tend to ignore the quality reports and other stuff because even when buying a Toyota, you are not guaranteed life will be perfect. It's all a crap shoot but none of them are as bad as a Yugo. I have a Hemi and yes it ticks but it has been for the last 70K miles now at 145K. They say the biggest reason is idling. Which I did all the time in the winter.

Pick the truck that suits you and fits your true needs. Wants are nice but you tend to regret getting wants over needs down the road. Don't go by specs alone. They never transfer to the "feel" of driving it every day. I like the Ram interior, always have but I don't care for the big vertical screen. GM is better now than they ever were and truly feel the GMC look the best.
 
Dusdaddy said:
It's tough looking at the new trucks today. The hard part for me is realizing how fast they will change after I get one. But twenty years of ownership? Wow, that'd be tough. Maybe as a third vehicle used exclusively on 1 weekend a month during the summer only. I but it because I wanna drive it.

I tend to ignore the quality reports and other stuff because even when buying a Toyota, you are not guaranteed life will be perfect. It's all a crap shoot but none of them are as bad as a Yugo. I have a Hemi and yes it ticks but it has been for the last 70K miles now at 145K. They say the biggest reason is idling. Which I did all the time in the winter.

Pick the truck that suits you and fits your true needs. Wants are nice but you tend to regret getting wants over needs down the road. Don't go by specs alone. They never transfer to the "feel" of driving it every day. I like the Ram interior, always have but I don't care for the big vertical screen. GM is better now than they ever were and truly feel the GMC look the best.
Click to expand...
I get the “keep it for 20 years” question all the time. Frankly, that won’t happen for the owner. Most people love to think they hold onto vehicles for decades, but when I press them on it, it is actually a shorter period of time. Some people truly do keep it for that long. With them, I find they have bought another daily driver along the way and the older vehicle is used for specific tasks like pulling a boat or something.
 
testerdahl said:
From my inbox: "I am finally looking to buy my first Full Size Truck...but am really struggling with which brand to choose.

I really like the 2020 - 2024 RAM 1500 Laramie for its reported ride comfort and interior quietness per Consumer Reports and other sources. It also looks sharp on the inside. I have no experience driving a RAM, so I am unsure about its long-term reliability and owner satisfaction - given it's not the top selling truck on the market.

I am also looking at the 2024 F-150 Lariat - mainly due to the refreshed front / rear end and pro power outlets. I prefer the interior of the RAM, but Ford sells more F-150s, so there is something to consider there.

If you could only buy one of these Full Size Trucks and drive it for 20+ years...which one would you go with?"

My response:

This is a pretty common question for me and it is basically impossible to answer. Why? I like all trucks, for different reasons, and long-term reliability is often more about proper maintenance and luck than a certain brand.

I mean, the most reliable truck on the market for the past decade has been the Toyota Tundra and the least reliable has been the Ram 1500. However, I've seen numerous Tundra trucks with issues and I've talked with many satisfied Ram 1500 owners.

Interestingly, in the past 2 years, we've seen Ram finishing higher in quality studies than the Tundra. Why? Is it major engine failures and catastrophic issues?! Not really. Instead, it is often technology issues like the phone not connecting via bluetooth or a random dash light.

Consumer Reports has said this in their various website posts on reliability. They point to large sedans as being the most reliable vehicle on the road. Why? Automakers haven't updated them with new technology which makes them more reliable. If you go along with that thinking, you should go buy an old Crown Vic and drive it until it dies. I've done that kind of thinking and sorry, that's just about the most boring way to live I've ever heard of.

My thinking is if you want to find problems with every major truck on the market, you'll find it if you look long enough.

Let's next discuss sales results as a measure of a truck's popularity with consumers. Sorry, that's just not a good way to look at things. Why? Commercial fleets. For GM and Ford, they get half of their annual sales or better from commercial businesses. Those businesses want to buy the same brand of truck with the same features every year or three years if they leased them. Their mechanics know how to work on them, what typically breaks for them and they keep parts on hand to service them. They don't care about anything a consumer cares about.

So, should you buy the Ford or the Ram? It sounds like you like the Ram overall and the pro power onboard feature of the Ford. I had the Ford with the pro power onboard and I really liked that feature. I also really like Ram's styling.

The question then is form versus function. Unfortunately, I can't make that decision for you since it comes down to your personal preference. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
My first new truck was a 1986 F-250 with a 5.0 liter gas motor and 4-speed manual transmission. I payed $14,000 for that truck and kept it 23 years. My second truck is a 2500HD SILVERADO with a 6.0 liter gas motor that I payed $26,000 for and still own it. Last year I bought a 2023 GMC SIERRA 1500 with the LZ0 and payed $66,000 (gulp) for. I’m 70 so my plan right now is to keep it for 5 years and buy a new truck. I’ll probably buy another GMC if they keep making the 3 liter diesel since I really like that powertrain. If not then I might just keep the ‘23.
 
Yeah, I still have my '84 CJ which was my DD up until about 2000. Now it's just a recreation vehicle. My current Ram is an '11 but she's ready to move on. Rust has really gotten a hold of her.
 
testerdahl said:
Shopping for a new truck is stressful. It should be fun, but then the internet gets involved and you read all sorts of horror stories. I wish I could get GM or Ram on the record as saying they fixed the lifter issue or the Hemi tick. It just doesn’t happen unless I get the rare chance to interview an engineer at some random event. Corporate PR won’t issue a statement since I guess it makes them liable in court as admitting they did have a problem and/or if someone has the same problem after they announced they fixed it, it puts them in an awkward spot.

With that said, I believe the lifter issue was a bad batch of parts from a supplier and they fixed the issue. I also believe the Hemi tick has been addressed with a fx AND the Hemi V-8 going away. Easy fix discontinuing the engine. LOL

I’m glad you brought up the Tundra bed entry issue. I was pretty furious about that one and I’m glad I am not alone.

I’ll have a new video to bring you on the new 2025 Ram 1500 late Feb or early March. First drive program is mid February. Maybe that will help your decision making.
Click to expand...
Hasn’t the gm lifter issue been an issue since gm introduced AFM to the V8‘s in 2007?
 
Max Henry said:
Hasn’t the gm lifter issue been an issue since gm introduced AFM to the V8‘s in 2007?
Click to expand...
A few years ago, I hired one of my friends who writes for the NAPA parts blog covering repairs. He reached out and interviewed a few people and checked with several others. I’ll link the post down below. What we could determine is the latest lifter issue was really only about a certain timeframe of truck builds.

The AFM is pretty controversial and the big complaint I’ve heard about it is excessive oil usage. I asked a GM engineer about the oil usage and he gave me the most stone faced look I’ve ever seen. Pretty much a no comment and if you say it again I’m going to punch you in the face. Pretty sure GM engineers are sick and tired of hearing about any issues with the AFM.

pickuptrucktalk.com

Are there new problems with GM V-8 engine lifters lurking? - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

GM lifter problems are hitting V-8 truck engines with relatively low mileage. And, while there's a fix, there is no recall.
pickuptrucktalk.com pickuptrucktalk.com
 
Once I get past all of the functional specs (power, efficiency, payload, towing), the interior is a big deal to me. I spend a lot of time in my truck so it isn’t just a vehicle, it is a place I do stuff. I eat in it. I use a laptop in it. I occasionally nap in it. I sit in it a lot (seat comfort). An attractive, comfortable interior is huge for me. Externally, I never want to walk out of a store and say, “Gee, that is an ugly truck. I hope nobody sees me get into it; but I sure did get a great deal.”

For me, the biggest show stopper for any vehicle will be stupid, invasive software. I don’t want pop ups in the center cluster when I first get in or while I am driving. I don’t want to login, or create a profile. The “safety” software is getting more dangerous; the “convenience” software is less convenient, and the “functional” software is less functional.

I hate legislating everything, but I think we need legislation dictating gas pedal on the right, brake on the left, clutch (when equipped) further left. Turn signals on the left. Lights knob or stalk on the left. Transmission in the center console or column. Stuff that used to be common sense.

Based on your 20 year scenario, soon manufacturers will be able to desupport their proprietary software making vehicles undrivable in the future in the name of safety. (Think digital instrument cluster.) If you think that is far out, ask farmers about their John Deere equipment.


www.farm-equipment.com

ONGOING COVERAGE: Right-to-Repair Impact on Dealers, Deere, Other OEMs

Colorado farmers expressed their growing frustrations over equipment repair delays during a roundtable with federal and state officials.
www.farm-equipment.com
 
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kd70qc said:
Once I get past all of the functional specs (power, efficiency, payload, towing), the interior is a big deal to me. I spend a lot of time in my truck so it isn’t just a vehicle, it is a place I do stuff. I eat in it. I use a laptop in it. I occasionally nap in it. I sit in it a lot (seat comfort). An attractive, comfortable interior is huge for me. Externally, I never want to walk out of a store and say, “Gee, that is an ugly truck. I hope nobody sees me get into it; but I sure did get a great deal.”

For me, the biggest show stopper for any vehicle will be stupid, invasive software. I don’t want pop ups in the center cluster when I first get in or while I am driving. I don’t want to login, or create a profile. The “safety” software is getting more dangerous; the “convenience” software is less convenient, and the “functional” software is less functional.

I hate legislating everything, but I think we need legislation dictating gas pedal on the right, brake on the left, clutch (when equipped) further left. Turn signals on the left. Lights knob or stalk on the left. Transmission in the center console or column. Stuff that used to be common sense.

Based on your 20 year scenario, soon manufacturers will be able to desupport their proprietary software making vehicles undrivable in the future in the name of safety. (Think digital instrument cluster.) If you think that is far out, ask farmers about their John Deere equipment.


www.farm-equipment.com

ONGOING COVERAGE: Right-to-Repair Impact on Dealers, Deere, Other OEMs

Colorado farmers expressed their growing frustrations over equipment repair delays during a roundtable with federal and state officials.
www.farm-equipment.com
Click to expand...
That’s an interesting case. I hope I hear how the case turns out.
 
testerdahl said:
A few years ago, I hired one of my friends who writes for the NAPA parts blog covering repairs. He reached out and interviewed a few people and checked with several others. I’ll link the post down below. What we could determine is the latest lifter issue was really only about a certain timeframe of truck builds.

The AFM is pretty controversial and the big complaint I’ve heard about it is excessive oil usage. I asked a GM engineer about the oil usage and he gave me the most stone faced look I’ve ever seen. Pretty much a no comment and if you say it again I’m going to punch you in the face. Pretty sure GM engineers are sick and tired of hearing about any issues with the AFM.

pickuptrucktalk.com

Are there new problems with GM V-8 engine lifters lurking? - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

GM lifter problems are hitting V-8 truck engines with relatively low mileage. And, while there's a fix, there is no recall.
pickuptrucktalk.com pickuptrucktalk.com
Click to expand...

Both my GMT 900s have AFM and each has a Range Technology AFM Disabler Device (not promoting, just the one I chose). Yes, it is a bit of a issue plugging it in and you have to be careful to not damage your OBD II port, but it is some peace of mind. Fuel economy stays around EPA city with the LC9 getting a bit better than the LMG, but it isn't used as much in winter so that may be the reason.

20 years for a daily driver? Try 23 years for my 2000 GMC Sonoma and it was still very functional when I sold it last year, along with our 21 year "Olds" Bravada. Yeah, not perfect and you have to invest in parts and maintenance over time. I like older rides, the tech is a distraction to me.
 
Think I saw a comment on another thread earlier today from the general manager of a GMC dealership. Wonder what his honest answer would be from his service department’s standpoint GM’s lifter problem….
 
testerdahl said:
A few years ago, I hired one of my friends who writes for the NAPA parts blog covering repairs. He reached out and interviewed a few people and checked with several others. I’ll link the post down below. What we could determine is the latest lifter issue was really only about a certain timeframe of truck builds.

The AFM is pretty controversial and the big complaint I’ve heard about it is excessive oil usage. I asked a GM engineer about the oil usage and he gave me the most stone faced look I’ve ever seen. Pretty much a no comment and if you say it again I’m going to punch you in the face. Pretty sure GM engineers are sick and tired of hearing about any issues with the AFM.

pickuptrucktalk.com

Are there new problems with GM V-8 engine lifters lurking? - Pickup Truck +SUV Talk

GM lifter problems are hitting V-8 truck engines with relatively low mileage. And, while there's a fix, there is no recall.
pickuptrucktalk.com pickuptrucktalk.com
Click to expand...
Thanks for the link, Tim. I have owned an ‘08 with the 5.3. A 2015 with the 6.2, that was such a sweet truck, ltz double cab, had to sell because a kiddo went to college. I currently own a 2018 regular cab with the 5.3. None of them have used oil. None of them were/are awkward going from v4 mode to v8 mode. They’ve all been great trucks. I know of one guy, just one, that had his engine fail because of the lifters, it was a 2014 5.3 with 145k on it. So yeah, one hears a lot about the afm/dfm lifter problems but i don’t think they are as prevalent as the internet buzz about them makes it seem.
 
@Max Henry, thanks for that. That’s actually reaaly encouraging to hear. We used to have a Yukon Denali with a 6.2 (2011) and I loved hearing that beast fire up And had hopes of having another someday.
 
What everyone has to keep in mind is when purchasing a new truck for upwards of 60k, and many over 70 or 80, is that one of the first things a new owner is going to do if/when something goes wrong is run to the internet and forums to see who else is having the issue and to complain. If you are not an active member of a forum, buy a new truck and 6 months later everything is going great the chances of that person running to a forum to tell everyone how great it is ...well it's miniscule.

I'm a member of Tacomaworld and a couple of GMC groups. There are problems up and down the forums on both sites, yes, even Toyota.

There is not an absolute leader in reliability in pickups. It's my opinion that Toyota was WAY behind with tech and options in the Tacoma and the Tundra and that is part of the reason why it is considered so reliable. They finally caught up with the redesign of the Tundra and the new Tacoma coming soon ...The Tundra already has some known issues, I would bet the all new Tacoma will be the same. With Ford, GM and Ram to a lesser extent redesigning every few years you have to expect some issues. Toyota made the exact same Tacoma for 18 years with a single drivetrain swap and the Tundra for 14. They better be damn good at putting those trucks together.
 
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Fightnfire said:
What everyone has to keep in mind is when purchasing a new truck for upwards of 60k, and many over 70 or 80, is that one of the first things a new owner is going to do if/when something goes wrong is run to the internet and forums to see who else is having the issue and to complain. If you are not an active member of a forum, buy a new truck and 6 months later everything is going great the chances of that person running to a forum to tell everyone how great it is ...well it's miniscule.

I'm a member of Tacomaworld and a couple of GMC groups. There are problems up and down the forums on both sites, yes, even Toyota.

There is not an absolute leader in reliability in pickups. It's my opinion that Toyota was WAY behind with tech and options in the Tacoma and the Tundra and that is part of the reason why it is considered so reliable. They finally caught up with the redesign of the Tundra and the new Tacoma coming soon ...The Tundra already has some known issues, I would bet the all new Tacoma will be the same. With Ford, GM and Ram to a lesser extent redesigning every few years you have to expect some issues. Toyota made the exact same Tacoma for 18 years with a single drivetrain swap and the Tundra for 14. They better be damn good at putting those trucks together.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with all of that. Especially the forums. For me, I look for trends. It's like Amazon reviews, I go straight to the negatives to look for bad trends. Many negative reviews about the Tacoma was the seating position. If you know this, and it doesn't bother you or you like it, then it's a non-factor. And I also agree Toyota was very conservative on "gadgets" to keep their quality up. Which does work. They are known for quality now. I think Ram was always the one to throw new things in the trucks before anyone else. Like big screens, airbags or heated steering wheels. And many consider them the lowest of the full-size truck reliability.
 
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