Top 5 common things new truck buyers get wrong on forums/social media

testerdahl

testerdahl

Administrator
Staff member
Hey guys,

I have this story idea in my head I wanted to run past everyone to see what you might add or what I'm missing. It is one of those ideas I had the "pleasure" (sarcasm) of waking up at 2 am thinking about. Ugh.

The deal is I've spent years doing this and I'm now at a point where I'm consistently seeing the same questions on new trucks time and time again on forums and social media. I think these things are creating misinformed consumers.

Here are my top 5 which could be expanded to 20. However, I want to zero in on the top things I see.

1. What problems have you had to gauge my future issues

Go to any forum or FB group and you'll see a question along the lines of: "hey guys, I'm planning on buying XYZ truck and I wondered who has the highest miles and what issues have you had?"

My issue with this question is how it is handled. I mean, say you get 20 comments and 18 of those are "love the truck, I have XXX miles." The OP doesn't put much stock on those answers.

Instead, you'll get one person who had say a dead battery. Ok, not a big deal. That gets skipped as well.

Then, you have the one guy who had an engine replaced in the first 40k miles. That comment invariably turns into:

What oil did you use?
How often did you do the oil changes?
Did you send the oil in for analysis?
Did you tow a lot?
Did you not break in the engine correctly?

Basically, it devolves into the thinking that SURELY the owner did something wrong to cause the engine failure. I see this a lot with the Tundra, Ford cam phasers and the GM engines for lifters.

My take is it comes down to statistics. If you had 18 people say they had no problems, why focus on the one guy who did and then why question how he maintained it?

The reality is if you build a 100 of anything, you will have an issue with at least a few. There's no way around that and there is no bulletproof engine. Any human-built machine can have an issue. Period.

If you are looking for problems, you'll find them on all brands and problems are MUCH easier to find on forums and social media. Why? Happy owners often don't post until they something goes wrong.

2. Never buy the first year model, let them work out the bugs

I've talked about this on other videos and this advice still bugs me for a few reasons:

1. You don't always find all the issues in the first year. Engines, for example, often will reveal issues within the first few years since the engine is still getting broken in completely. I mean if the engine has a faulty part, it could fail at the onset like the Tundra waste gate issue. More than likely, a bad part will be an "ok" part for the first few years and then only go bad after use.

Again, look at the Tundra. They didn't start discovering the engines grenading themselves significant time had passed.

2. To pick on the Tundra again, consider the 2.5 gen of the truck - 2014-2021. People bought that truck in say 2019 thinking "all the bugs had been worked out" only to discover Toyota removed the transmission cooler. What? Right? Why would Toyota change a truck "they had worked all the bugs out of?" Because trucks are never "done" in the first year of launch. They are constantly tweaked.

Ford did the same thing with the Powerboost removing one of the starters midway through the 14th gen.

Ram did the same by discontinuing the non-eTorque Ram from its lineup.

I could go on and on. The point is trucks are constantly evolving.

3. Known issue the company refuses to fix

This is just ridiculous IMO. Think about it. You are a company owner and your customers are complaining about an issue. Ok. So, your decision then is NOT to fix it? You want to lose those customers business and all the word of mouth business? In today's age of social media, a "known issue" spreads like wildfire.

Of course you'd want to fix it. The issue is the time to fix it. People have this "Amazon next day" delivery mindset when it comes to fixing issues. Yet, we see time after time, fixing an issue is months to a year in automotive due to all the testing they have to go through to make sure the fix works in a variety of conditions and it truly does fix the issue.

4. Recalls = quality

Last week's truck news recap had the story of a Ford Bronco Sport owner who said, "I did my research and found no recalls which I took as a sign of great quality."

That was just a misinformed consumer. What would have happened if he had found some recalls? Would he have went to another brand? Would he have actually looked at the recalls?

Look, recalls happen every day and every Monday we get a list of at least 10-15 recalls. The vast majority of these recalls are for items like the wrong door jamb sticker, a faulty back-up camera or a missing bolt. When you look at the number of vehicles involved it can often be as low as 1. Yup. I remember a Ram recall for a door jamb sticker that affected .... ONE truck.

Recalls don't automatically equal quality. Again human and computer error plays into things all the time.

5. The best advice is to ask a mechanic

I have friends who are mechanics and I talk with them often about things. Here's what I know about them:

1. If they work at X brand, they will tell you X brand is awful. Why? All they see all day is problems with X brand. After a while, your brain only sees problems with X brand.

2. If they are independent, they will tell relay stories about how bad certain brands were 20 years ago. And they use the same mindset to apply to new cars today. Check out Scotty Kilmer's channel if you don't believe me. He will swear brands like Mazda are junk based on working on them 20 years ago.

3. They mostly hate new things. Why? Fixing vehicles is more about computers than wrenches. They prefer engines they can wrench on and not firing up a computer. They see all the new tech as bad.

Instead, they would recommend you buy an older vehicle with an easier to service powertrain. They focus on repair first and foremost. I know so many mechanics who drive around beaters with a simple or no radio.

That's great and all but that's not everybody's cup of tea. Some people want a newer vehicle with more power, new styling and more tech. Mechanics, by and large, think that's just asking for trouble with more things that could break. There is that POV and it is valid. But, I find customers want more from their vehicle.

----

Thoughts?
 
I think this is a great opportunity to do multiple videos on the subject.

First do yours, then do a collaboration with other reporters in your circle (and this forum), finally you go crazy and offer to do a group video with a representative of each group. Forum owners, mechanics, Consumer Reports, engineers. Have that one a live stream and let the viewers throw in their two cents.
 
This is an interesting idea, but do not be surprise if the internet does not agree with you.

  1. I agree, but on top of making the point to not always trust forums, maybe you should focus on ressources that can help you identify problems with a specific car or truck like the car complaints website or the NHTSA website.
  2. Agree.
  3. This is a perception issue and also a real issue. Ford is trying to fix it's 10 speed transmission but after all these years, it's still having issues and they are still putting it in everything, this looks bad but they are trying to fix it. Then you have the GM 6.2 lifters failure. If the NHTSA does not get involved, seems like the consensus was for users to go pound sand once you're out of warranty. Even worse is stuff like the Ford Pinto where Ford knew all along that it was a problem.
  4. Agreed. The type of recall is more important than anything. Mislabeled stickers, who cares, explosive airbags = big deal. You touched on this subject in your latest podcast with Jill.
  5. If cars were perfect, mechanics would have no jobs or little. I take to their advise if I want to do my own maintenance or to look for potential costly repairs down the road. But this should only factor if you plan to do your own maintenance or plan to keep your cars for 10+ years and the data is not supporting that.
 
testerdahl said:
Hey guys,

I have this story idea in my head I wanted to run past everyone to see what you might add or what I'm missing. It is one of those ideas I had the "pleasure" (sarcasm) of waking up at 2 am thinking about. Ugh.

The deal is I've spent years doing this and I'm now at a point where I'm consistently seeing the same questions on new trucks time and time again on forums and social media. I think these things are creating misinformed consumers.

Here are my top 5 which could be expanded to 20. However, I want to zero in on the top things I see.

1. What problems have you had to gauge my future issues

Go to any forum or FB group and you'll see a question along the lines of: "hey guys, I'm planning on buying XYZ truck and I wondered who has the highest miles and what issues have you had?"

My issue with this question is how it is handled. I mean, say you get 20 comments and 18 of those are "love the truck, I have XXX miles." The OP doesn't put much stock on those answers.

Instead, you'll get one person who had say a dead battery. Ok, not a big deal. That gets skipped as well.

Then, you have the one guy who had an engine replaced in the first 40k miles. That comment invariably turns into:

What oil did you use?
How often did you do the oil changes?
Did you send the oil in for analysis?
Did you tow a lot?
Did you not break in the engine correctly?

Basically, it devolves into the thinking that SURELY the owner did something wrong to cause the engine failure. I see this a lot with the Tundra, Ford cam phasers and the GM engines for lifters.

My take is it comes down to statistics. If you had 18 people say they had no problems, why focus on the one guy who did and then why question how he maintained it?

The reality is if you build a 100 of anything, you will have an issue with at least a few. There's no way around that and there is no bulletproof engine. Any human-built machine can have an issue. Period.

If you are looking for problems, you'll find them on all brands and problems are MUCH easier to find on forums and social media. Why? Happy owners often don't post until they something goes wrong.

2. Never buy the first year model, let them work out the bugs

I've talked about this on other videos and this advice still bugs me for a few reasons:

1. You don't always find all the issues in the first year. Engines, for example, often will reveal issues within the first few years since the engine is still getting broken in completely. I mean if the engine has a faulty part, it could fail at the onset like the Tundra waste gate issue. More than likely, a bad part will be an "ok" part for the first few years and then only go bad after use.

Again, look at the Tundra. They didn't start discovering the engines grenading themselves significant time had passed.

2. To pick on the Tundra again, consider the 2.5 gen of the truck - 2014-2021. People bought that truck in say 2019 thinking "all the bugs had been worked out" only to discover Toyota removed the transmission cooler. What? Right? Why would Toyota change a truck "they had worked all the bugs out of?" Because trucks are never "done" in the first year of launch. They are constantly tweaked.

Ford did the same thing with the Powerboost removing one of the starters midway through the 14th gen.

Ram did the same by discontinuing the non-eTorque Ram from its lineup.

I could go on and on. The point is trucks are constantly evolving.

3. Known issue the company refuses to fix

This is just ridiculous IMO. Think about it. You are a company owner and your customers are complaining about an issue. Ok. So, your decision then is NOT to fix it? You want to lose those customers business and all the word of mouth business? In today's age of social media, a "known issue" spreads like wildfire.

Of course you'd want to fix it. The issue is the time to fix it. People have this "Amazon next day" delivery mindset when it comes to fixing issues. Yet, we see time after time, fixing an issue is months to a year in automotive due to all the testing they have to go through to make sure the fix works in a variety of conditions and it truly does fix the issue.

4. Recalls = quality

Last week's truck news recap had the story of a Ford Bronco Sport owner who said, "I did my research and found no recalls which I took as a sign of great quality."

That was just a misinformed consumer. What would have happened if he had found some recalls? Would he have went to another brand? Would he have actually looked at the recalls?

Look, recalls happen every day and every Monday we get a list of at least 10-15 recalls. The vast majority of these recalls are for items like the wrong door jamb sticker, a faulty back-up camera or a missing bolt. When you look at the number of vehicles involved it can often be as low as 1. Yup. I remember a Ram recall for a door jamb sticker that affected .... ONE truck.

Recalls don't automatically equal quality. Again human and computer error plays into things all the time.

5. The best advice is to ask a mechanic

I have friends who are mechanics and I talk with them often about things. Here's what I know about them:

1. If they work at X brand, they will tell you X brand is awful. Why? All they see all day is problems with X brand. After a while, your brain only sees problems with X brand.

2. If they are independent, they will tell relay stories about how bad certain brands were 20 years ago. And they use the same mindset to apply to new cars today. Check out Scotty Kilmer's channel if you don't believe me. He will swear brands like Mazda are junk based on working on them 20 years ago.

3. They mostly hate new things. Why? Fixing vehicles is more about computers than wrenches. They prefer engines they can wrench on and not firing up a computer. They see all the new tech as bad.

Instead, they would recommend you buy an older vehicle with an easier to service powertrain. They focus on repair first and foremost. I know so many mechanics who drive around beaters with a simple or no radio.

That's great and all but that's not everybody's cup of tea. Some people want a newer vehicle with more power, new styling and more tech. Mechanics, by and large, think that's just asking for trouble with more things that could break. There is that POV and it is valid. But, I find customers want more from their vehicle.

----

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think this would be really good, I’m probably your target audience. I don’t just want info and knowledge, I need to know how to look and think about these things.
 
  1. What problems have you had to gauge my future issues? This I totally agree with. So much crap gets brought up about so few issues. With my logical brain, I disregard it until there is data to support it. Real numbers are needed, not this repetitive word of mouth that "So many of XYZ are failing that their reliability sucks now". Before I decide something is a failure or some system will be a constant future issue, I need to see more data than the dog piling on the forums or YT comments.
  2. Never buy the first-year model, let them work out the bugs. I agree this one gets too much traction as well. Sometimes it's true but more often it's not true. A good counter to this would be to gather data about new releases and compare reliability numbers of those MY to later MY. I'm also trying to remember if anyone released something that was so bad they redesigned it for the next MY because of so many issues. One circumstance that I think will make this statement true is software. Sometimes, not everything can be discovered during testing. TFL's Taco failure for one. Most first year issues will be corrected under warranty anyway.
  3. Known issue the company refuses to fix. I partially agree with this. Sometimes there are issues that they don't fix because it just doesn't make sense business wise. And I understand that. Some is just stubbornness on the manufacturers' side. Like Toyota not allowing forward cameras operating above a certain speed. Look how long GM truck seats were slightly off center from the steering wheel.
  4. Recalls equal quality. I think it does. When you get a large volume having to do with incorrect parts, including labels, or sub-standard parts, yes, that is a quality issue. Once again, it's volume. Lots of different little issues point to lack of good QC.
  5. The best advice is to ask a mechanic. I can go both ways on this one. Mechs always bitch about engineers and how something was designed. Why is that one nut or bolt in an inaccessible spot? And of course, most Ford dealership mechs will know all the recurring gripes of Fords because they see them every damn day. Then again, sometimes the mechs are right and the part fails way too soon, way too often. On this one, it just depends on what the question is.

About the only thing I'd say is left out is the discussion about reliability rankings. All we ever see is a list with XYZ on top and then down to ZYX on bottom. But what are the actual numbers? If only .1% of XYZ has issues and .5% of ZYX have issues, what does that really mean to me? YT says that means this truck is 5 times more reliable than that one. There is so much more to ownership than worrying about such small number differences. It's like picking your lottery scratcher tickets based on the "1 in 5 million" chance is better odds than the "1 in 6 million". Well yes, it is, but does it really matter?
 
I had typed out some longer responses as others have done and think generally speaking I agree with a few of your points.

Forums, yup they overblow everything. Pretty much useless unless you're looking for a specific fix or how-to, then they can be a life saver.

First year model, I'm on the fence about but I do look towards what changed in that model year. If it's a full ground up (ex: Tundra) I'm avoiding for a while.

I pretty strongly disagree with the number of recalls not correllating to quality comment. I will agree that it CAN depend on the type of recall but **** ups are **** ups. Some manufacturers are fucking up ALOT more than others. I can't just outright dismiss that.

Generally speaking, this is akin to pouring gas on the flames. It's your opinion just like it's theirs. Many, but not all, have just as many years in the truck world as you do albeit from a different angle.

Would you follow this up with your idea on the 5 things people should be looking for?
 
Fightnfire said:
I had typed out some longer responses as others have done and think generally speaking I agree with a few of your points.

Forums, yup they overblow everything. Pretty much useless unless you're looking for a specific fix or how-to, then they can be a life saver.

First year model, I'm on the fence about but I do look towards what changed in that model year. If it's a full ground up (ex: Tundra) I'm avoiding for a while.

I pretty strongly disagree with the number of recalls not correllating to quality comment. I will agree that it CAN depend on the type of recall but **** ups are **** ups. Some manufacturers are fucking up ALOT more than others. I can't just outright dismiss that.

Generally speaking, this is akin to pouring gas on the flames. It's your opinion just like it's theirs. Many, but not all, have just as many years in the truck world as you do albeit from a different angle.

Would you follow this up with your idea on the 5 things people should be looking for?
Click to expand...
"I pretty strongly disagree with the number of recalls not correllating to quality comment."

Honest question: do you feel recalls are more prevalent now than they used to be? I wonder about looking up the numbers of older models and then comparing the number of recalls would be of use?
 
I don't know about total numbers and I also don't know if that would make sense as a comparison. With the addition of complexity, tech, emissions controls etc. it seems the data no longer works as a comparison to 2000. I try not to focus on that because it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is trends across manufacturers over the last 0-10 years. What do the recent trends say?
 
testerdahl said:
"I pretty strongly disagree with the number of recalls not correllating to quality comment."

Honest question: do you feel recalls are more prevalent now than they used to be? I wonder about looking up the numbers of older models and then comparing the number of recalls would be of use?
Click to expand...
As a consumer I can now easily look for recalls where as before it was postal service or a friendly dealer shop telling you about it so yes I'm now more aware than before but at the same time there's a correlation between the two even if you need to look at what the recall entails.

I think TSB's are just as important, manufacturers can have hundreds of them for a specific model like the 2019 Ram 1500 has currently 1509 of them...

Both recalls and TSB CAN be an indicator of quality but not the end all be all answer to it.
 
Fightnfire said:
I don't know about total numbers and I also don't know if that would make sense as a comparison. With the addition of complexity, tech, emissions controls etc. it seems the data no longer works as a comparison to 2000. I try not to focus on that because it doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is trends across manufacturers over the last 0-10 years. What do the recent trends say?
Click to expand...
When I did the Tacoma reliability part of a video recently (for example), I found more recalls in the mid-year cycle and more recalls in the older first year than this new one.
 
testerdahl said:
"I pretty strongly disagree with the number of recalls not correllating to quality comment."

Honest question: do you feel recalls are more prevalent now than they used to be? I wonder about looking up the numbers of older models and then comparing the number of recalls would be of use?
Click to expand...
It depends if the recall is for a sticker or some infotainment issue or is it because the engine or transmission is going to puke its guts out on the interstate.
For instance my 2006 Nissan Frontier has an open recall for the Nissan emblem on the steering wheel "A DETACHED EMBLEM AND/OR RETAINER COMPONENT MAY BECOME A PROJECTILE DURING AN AIRBAG DEPLOYMENT, INCREASING THE RISK OF INJURY TO VEHICLE OCCUPANTS" yawn, and I am damn well not driving a three hundred mile round trip to get it fixed.
 
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Hey Tim,
This is an interesting idea.
Most of my comments have been covered by others above.
#2- I’m still in this camp if it’s a totally new model or it’s a new power plant. I just want to see if there’s any glaring issues or if it doesn’t perform as advertised before my purchase. I always take any online information (including reviews and tests) with a grain of salt. Like you have said in the past any problem (or imagined problem) gets blown out of proportion on social media.

One question I see all the time is what mileage did you get in your test(or the comment what a piece of junk I get way better mileage in my …..)?
So many factors tie in to mileage including environmental, trim and driving habits. So many times the comments I see on mileage are negative where someone has a non off-road model and they say the reviewers results are no good meanwhile the reviewer was given an off-road trim to test.
I especially see this on halo trucks. People overreact on the terrible mileage. If you want to play with the big hp and off-road goodies you will have to pay at the pump. Plus, if you own one of these why would you drive it like grandpa in a Camry?
 
James-kd2cm said:
Hey Tim,
This is an interesting idea.
Most of my comments have been covered by others above.
#2- I’m still in this camp if it’s a totally new model or it’s a new power plant. I just want to see if there’s any glaring issues or if it doesn’t perform as advertised before my purchase. I always take any online information (including reviews and tests) with a grain of salt. Like you have said in the past any problem (or imagined problem) gets blown out of proportion on social media.

One question I see all the time is what mileage did you get in your test(or the comment what a piece of junk I get way better mileage in my …..)?
So many factors tie in to mileage including environmental, trim and driving habits. So many times the comments I see on mileage are negative where someone has a non off-road model and they say the reviewers results are no good meanwhile the reviewer was given an off-road trim to test.
I especially see this on halo trucks. People overreact on the terrible mileage. If you want to play with the big hp and off-road goodies you will have to pay at the pump. Plus, if you own one of these why would you drive it like grandpa in a Camry?
Click to expand...
That's a good one.

I'm thinking I still want to do this video and I was thinking this morning I need something different than the first year don't buy point. @Fightnfire makes a good point and I think there's just way too many different opinions on that.

I want to try to make the video less controversial and more informative.
 
testerdahl said:
I want to try to make the video less controversial and more informative.
Click to expand...

That's gonna be really tough then unless you can specifically back up your points with very hard data. And even then, you know you'll get the ones who will dismiss the source of your data like JD Power or CR.

One example against your 2nd point: The 2016 Tacoma. The first MY of the third gen and is considered one of the worst MY of Tacoma ever built. It even made the video by The Car Care Nut as a specific MY to definitely not buy and he went on to explain why. Then one for your point: the 2009 Dodge Ram did fine but 2012-2014 had more issues, same generation.
 
testerdahl said:
😂 right! Maybe I’m just better off with this thread and not doing a video.
Click to expand...
Wait a minute.....a good way to do this video would be a point-counter-point style. You need somebody to take the other side, another YTuber. That way, both versions are argued, and commenters can beat on one of you or the other but it should make for good content to watch.
 
James-kd2cm said:
Hey Tim,
This is an interesting idea.
Most of my comments have been covered by others above.
#2- I’m still in this camp if it’s a totally new model or it’s a new power plant. I just want to see if there’s any glaring issues or if it doesn’t perform as advertised before my purchase. I always take any online information (including reviews and tests) with a grain of salt. Like you have said in the past any problem (or imagined problem) gets blown out of proportion on social media.

One question I see all the time is what mileage did you get in your test(or the comment what a piece of junk I get way better mileage in my …..)?
So many factors tie in to mileage including environmental, trim and driving habits. So many times the comments I see on mileage are negative where someone has a non off-road model and they say the reviewers results are no good meanwhile the reviewer was given an off-road trim to test.
I especially see this on halo trucks. People overreact on the terrible mileage. If you want to play with the big hp and off-road goodies you will have to pay at the pump. Plus, if you own one of these why would you drive it like grandpa in a Camry?
Click to expand...
Man the mileage claims are insane and are really frustrating to weed out from comments. People have wild claims like I get 22mpg in my 1998 Ford F350 dually lifted on 37`s all day every day pulling 12 000lbs up the ike gauntlet, this new truck is junk since it`s only getting 20 mpg on the highway.
 
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