I think overall, none of these trucks are the "worst" for anybody nor are any of them the "best" for everybody. I understand the difficulty of making these YT videos because everyone wants a "conclusion". Some sort of, "this is good, that is bad" thing. But it just can't be done and appeal to all. Like the Tacoma power: is it better than last gen? Yep. Was the last gen better than others? Nope. Sadly, I didn't get much out of these because they aren't the main-stream models other than the Off-road. I'm more interested in an AT4 or Lariat Off-road. The extreme models are for the fan-boys. I'm guessing a Ford enthusiast will love the Raptor and a Taco Pro guy will love the new Pro.
Tim's Tacoma Review
- Thread starter Beninbeta
- Start date
Beninbeta
Well-known member
That's the question for me. ZR2s seem to be pretty easy to get now so they are a great option same with TRD-Off Road. But the halo trims, how many of those will be made RR, Pro, Trailhunter and ZR2 Bison. You can order a RR, but it seems like it takes a pretty long time to build it and get it into your hands so if you really want one you can get it, but you'll have to wait most likely. The Pro/Trailhunters are likely mostly spoken for for this year for the most part.
One other thing that makes the TRD OR more expensive than the Ford at least is that it comes with the sunroof in the Premium Package. If you want a sunroof, the Ford isn't an option. Conversely, I'd have been happy if the sunroof were an option on the TRD-OR, like it is on the Colorado. Then the price would be basically the same as a Lariat or ZR2.
Value is all in the eye of the beholder! I'm sure if I had driven the RR for a while @All Terrain Nation, I also would have felt the OR was underpowered, but that's a way different engine. Again the Raptor is the best value for the $ I think.
Fightnfire
Moderator
Of the halo trucks I agree the Ranger looks to be the best value, for the next tier down I think the best value is a loaded ZR2. All tech options, safety options and sunroof for $51,800 incl dest. That's adapt cruise, HD vision surround cameras, Heated and cooled seats, BOSE sound etc. I prefer the interior of the GM to Toyota or Ford but that's obvisouly a subjective thing. I just think the horizontal screen is way better than the vertical ford setup or ugly tablet in the Toyota. Get rid of the sunroof and bose stereo and be under $50 with all of the same options.
That's the thing, is the Raptor that much better than the base ZR2 to make it a better value? Gotta give the value price to Chevy. But if one was that concerned about price, why even go there? Ben got everything he needed without a halo trim. As in the full-size, if you are going Halo, price matters less so why not a Pro or Trailhunter? Some picked a Raptor R over a TRX.
Beninbeta
Well-known member
@Fightnfire we agree! When I was looking to buy I couldn't get a Colorado or GMC because of the stop sale on those at the time. I could have waited 2 more months and that would have been fine, but I actually prefer the interior, screen and physical buttons for the important stuff on the Tacoma. With the safety features, I found the lane centering to either be non-exsitent or not working the way I expected on the GMs I test drove and that is another feature I really love on a vehicle. But that's why test drives can be hard when the dealer goes with and you don't feel like you have the freedom to mess around as much and figure things out. Maybe it works exactly as it should, but some setting wasn't properly set.
Fightnfire
Moderator
The TRD-OR that @Beninbeta got was mid 50's is IIRC. I compare the ZR2 to the TRD-OR and the GMC AT4. The Bison and AT4X are quite a bit more and compare to the Ranger, TRD Pro and TH.
Fightnfire
Moderator
You're correct about the lane centering, all of the manufacturers seem to go about that differently. Our Expedition literally fights you when you approach a line, it's annoying and I think not safe because it's so forceful. My AT4 is much less intrusive and if I'm applying resistance on the wheel doesn't fight me, I can feel it but it doesn't push.
Oh yeah, but the Off-road is not Toyota's Halo trim. And an Off-road can be had for well under $50k. Not fancy at all but a decent fourwheeler that could be built on. Which is really what many want, a good base without all the crazy crap the halos have.
I think people want me to declare a winner only so they can argue with me about how I’m wrong. That’s what they really want. They want to validate their feelings one way or another and when I don’t declare a winner, they are pissed off they can’t be pissed off at me.
Beninbeta
Well-known member
I just want/need accurate information and the opinions of the reviewer. In the end, we all make up our own mind. Validation that we made a good or the right choice is always great, but it comes at a cost for the reviewer. You'll always be wrong. You can recommend or not recommend something and give a rationale, but you'll always be wrong there too. It's a tough place to be. That makes comparisons hard, people like them, but when you review something on it's own merits, the viewer gets to make a decision for themselves rather than rely on others opinions, professionals or not. And then there's the brand loyalists that you either make happy or piss off no matter what you do picking a winner or not.
You do a great job of this overall, @testerdahl, and I like when you say you were wrong sometimes too. Nothing wrong with that either we're all fallible and make mistakes.
I also like opinions on features. Like does the safety system on this vehicle make my trip more enjoyable or less stressful or is it bothering the heck out of you the whole time. Or is this $1230 feature (like SDM) worth the expense and if so, for everyone or just a certain subset of people.
lol...pretty much. It's all anything is anymore. This has more HP, that has more TQ, this has more rear seat room, etc. so it must be best. All that so someone can bash what they dislike or waive the flag of their favorite in the comments.
NMTRUCKER
Well-known member
I came to this forum and your YT vehicle review videos to learn about the trucks and SUVs that were not available on the dealer lots for a long time. You provided a ton of useful information and then it was up to me to decide whether a particular vehicle would work or not. No one knows a particular person’s requirements so it’s up to the individual consumer to make up their own mind. Your job, IMO, is to provide your audience with factual information that then they can analyze and fine tune for their specific needs. You and Jill do a great job at that as well as other vehicle review YouTubers. It’s not easy to ignore the keyboard warriors but those individuals aren’t going away anytime soon. Keep doin what you’re doin dude.
Rotten.dalton
Member
I caught up on this thread and have another perspective on the Taco’s cost. For me, it is overall value. That’s the initial price, capability, and resale price at the end of my journey with it. Historically, you can’t go wrong with the Taco for value.
That said, I agree that the MSRP on the 24 Tacoma is high. I think Toyota saw dealers making big money on 5-10k ADM and priced it into this generation. It looks like all manufacturers did. Though, that didn’t stop dealers from adding even more ADM, so prices have exploded. There’s a dealer in my area with a 25k markup on a trailhunter. Just wow.
We know the market isn’t the halo versions. I think most buyers are like me. I can afford more, but wanted the Off Road with some comforts. These are the just under 50k units referenced in the quote above. I think most buyers would be happy with the OR or Sport with heated seats, non poverty spec gauge cluster, etc.
All the talk about the lofty prices in this thread seems to leave out negotiated discounts. I’ve never paid msrp for a vehicle. I never “need” a vehicle, so I take my time establishing relationships with dealers and finding potential discounted units that I’d be happy with.
My question regarding price is “what if you could shave 6k off the 50k msrp on the Tacoma?“ Would that change your opinion on it’s value?
Some dealers in California are already offering 5k off tacomas with no negotiation...it’s obvious the market is forcing a correction.
Fightnfire
Moderator
That's true, but keep in mind, you can negotiate MSRP at other manufacturer dealerships too...The non-halo GM twins are also seeing good discounts.
I think Ford/GM really closed the gap on the 3 items you listed and it's not as clear cut as it used to be: initial price, capability and resale price. Initial price and resale price tend to work in tandem and people forget about that. If I pay 5-10k more for a new midsize pickup I hope it's worth 5-10k more down the road. Time will tell.
Now that "newest" has peaked, there does seem to be a lot more negotiating than when they were first released so deals can be had. They are more expensive than the other brands, but it doesn't look like that difference has really increased any from years past.
Rotten.dalton
Member
I agree, and also agree with Fightnfire about other brands prices softening. High interest rates suck, lol If you can’t pay cash and seems to have sucked the enthusiasm out of the market. I had a gladiator a few years ago so that was a known quantity to me. I looked at a 17k off willys and wondered how Jeep imagined it was worth 58k msrp in the first place. I didn’t even consider a ranger, despite having other fords. It looked very bland to me, in xlt form reminded me of the older frontier model in the front. After I bought the taco I checked out a trail boss, but other than the better looking screens, I thought the interior was bland. The outside was more “off roady“ looking though. I test drove it and couldn’t “feel” the power difference between it and my Tacoma. I understand from reviews that, for whatever reason, more power didn’t really translate into a more usable power advantage. All around definitely more competitive than years past. AlI things considered. I’m completely happy with my final choice.
Rotten.dalton
Member
I think what I appreciate about you is your sense of fairness across brands. Most of the YT reviewers are national enquirer style click baiters. I refuse to watch their pile on “tragedy” vehicle reviews. These days, I’ll watch you and TFL. The rest are unalived to me. I dropped BH when he put out a video claiming he was “done” with his defender cause the battery died in freezing CO winter. I thought “what a wuss”. He drives and reviews but doesn’t know how they work. Anyway, keep keeping it real.