Thinking about buying a 2025 Ram - Hurricane or Ramcharger

chaseydog said:
An issue that comes to mind is the lack of real world data and dealer service center experience in dealing with EV issues. As with any new technology engineers tend to err on the side of caution until a system has proven to be reliable enough that inspection criteria can be relaxed.

I was watching a video on YouTube a few months ago in which an EV owner had run over some road debris and brought the car to the dealer to be inspected. The dealer noted a ding on the tray which protects the batteries. From the pictures it didn’t look all that bad and certainly seemed like something that could be repaired or replaced relatively easily.

Unfortunately the service tech was informed by the OE that the entire battery pack would need to be replaced. I don’t remember the cost but it was significant enough that the insurance company totaled the car.

The YouTube channel that carried the story got involved in some back and forth with the OEM who admitted that the inspection criteria for the EV is still a work in progress.
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I know a journalist who owns a Mercedes-Benz hybrid car and is pretty pissed. The dealership wants $35k to replace the battery on the car with just 47,000 miles. It doesn't run without the battery and it has been sitting for 2 years rather than getting it fixed.

I see that being the main issue. With battery prices still so high, do you even bother to have it fixed or do you just buy something else? It depends for sure, but a question I think a lot of people are going to be asking.
 
Fightnfire said:
EV's are more expensive to maintain by a wide margin
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You mean less right? The reality is if you replace a battery, expensive, the vehicle is basically brand new again. Batteries are lasting 10+ years and the rest of the vehicle would be tires, brakes (less often due to regen), cabin air filter, wiper fluid. I would expect an EV to go 300-500k pretty easily with a lot less maintaining than with an ICE engine. Having both is less ideal as you still need to maintain the gas engine. The Ram Charger is an interesting hybrid approach though.

What I would give you is replacement/repair cost can be higher for sure.
 
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Beninbeta said:
You mean less right? The reality is if you replace a battery, expensive, the vehicle is basically brand new again. Batteries are lasting 10+ years and the rest of the vehicle would be tires, brakes (less often due to regen), cabin air filter, wiper fluid. I would expect an EV to go 300-500k pretty easily with a lot less maintaining than with an ICE engine. Having both is less ideal as you still need to maintain the gas engine. The Ram Charger is an interesting hybrid approach though.

What I would give you is replacement/repair cost can be higher for sure.
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I clarified above already, but as a previous owner of a Toyota Prius I can assure you there are plenty of other things that can go wrong and when they do it takes significantly longer for them to be repaired and cost much more. We put about 100k miles on ours and the cost of ownership was more than our Tacoma or Kia Sportage. That isn't taking into consideration fuel which brings those numbers closer but we had a few of the common problems with our Prius and it was very expensive to work on, parts and labor. In the end at around 180k miles the battery was shot and we got rid of it.
 
Fightnfire said:
I clarified above already, but as a previous owner of a Toyota Prius I can assure you there are plenty of other things that can go wrong and when they do it takes significantly longer for them to be repaired and cost much more. We put about 100k miles on ours and the cost of ownership was more than our Tacoma or Kia Sportage. That isn't taking into consideration fuel which brings those numbers closer but we had a few of the common problems with our Prius and it was very expensive to work on, parts and labor. In the end at around 180k miles the battery was shot and we got rid of it.
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That's fair. What year was it and I do think Hybrids are not really less expensive to maintain vs full EVs, but some of that is luck and build quality too. Tim is there data that you have access to on this? It might be an interesting video. Long term ownership costs ICE, Hybrid, PHEV, EV?
 
Beninbeta said:
That's fair. What year was it and I do think Hybrids are not really less expensive to maintain vs full EVs, but some of that is luck and build quality too. Tim is there data that you have access to on this? It might be an interesting video. Long term ownership costs ICE, Hybrid, PHEV, EV?
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2008 Prius bought in 2013 with 60ish k miles for my commuter. I was driving ~90 miles round trip to work 5 days a week and wanted MPG and to keep miles off of the other vehicles. It was in like-new shape, we picked it out of many based on maintenance records, shape and from a Toyota dealership. There are a handful of common problems with all of the prius's and we suffered from 2 or 3 of them.

The first is that the main wire harness travels to the back of the vehicle and the hatchback leaks in an area that can't be seen. Unfortunately that leak corrodes out the wires in the harness and makes them brittle. Ours snapped and required a repair. The first quote from Toyota was to replace the complete master harness which was thousands of dollars. That's their only fix for this common issue. We talked them in to repairing the harness which was still expensive, I don't remember exactly but over 1k. When I say talked them in to it, I mean one of their EV techs fixed this in his off time at home. The problem was so common he was completely set up in his garage to fix it. Good cash side gig for him.

The second problem, also well known, was the instrument cluster going in and out. Sometimes for a few miles, other times a few days. The car was driveable but no instrument cluster, no miles tracking, no speedo, gear selector etc. Another very expensive fix and known Toyota problem. This requires the instrument cluster to be replaced.

The third issue we had was not staying in gear on very hot days, several times a summer in the PNW which is not very hot. The gear selector returned to a neutral position and the only way to get it to stay in D or R was to hold it in place with your hand.

All three of these are well known issues that Toyota ignored and cost prius owners thousands of dollars in repairs.

When the battery started to fail we looked into replacement and then reconditioning but in the end gave the car back to Toyota.

It was my experience with this car, and then as a prospective owner of the 3rd gen tacoma and watching/experiencing all of those issues that left a bad taste in my mouth for Toyota as of late. Then the Tundra etc. etc.
 
Fightnfire said:
2008 Prius bought in 2013 with 60ish k miles for my commuter. I was driving ~90 miles round trip to work 5 days a week and wanted MPG and to keep miles off of the other vehicles. It was in like-new shape, we picked it out of many based on maintenance records, shape and from a Toyota dealership. There are a handful of common problems with all of the prius's and we suffered from 2 or 3 of them.

The first is that the main wire harness travels to the back of the vehicle and the hatchback leaks in an area that can't be seen. Unfortunately that leak corrodes out the wires in the harness and makes them brittle. Ours snapped and required a repair. The first quote from Toyota was to replace the complete master harness which was thousands of dollars. That's their only fix for this common issue. We talked them in to repairing the harness which was still expensive, I don't remember exactly but over 1k. When I say talked them in to it, I mean one of their EV techs fixed this in his off time at home. The problem was so common he was completely set up in his garage to fix it. Good cash side gig for him.

The second problem, also well known, was the instrument cluster going in and out. Sometimes for a few miles, other times a few days. The car was driveable but no instrument cluster, no miles tracking, no speedo, gear selector etc. Another very expensive fix and known Toyota problem. This requires the instrument cluster to be replaced.

The third issue we had was not staying in gear on very hot days, several times a summer in the PNW which is not very hot. The gear selector returned to a neutral position and the only way to get it to stay in D or R was to hold it in place with your hand.

All three of these are well known issues that Toyota ignored and cost prius owners thousands of dollars in repairs.

When the battery started to fail we looked into replacement and then reconditioning but in the end gave the car back to Toyota.

It was my experience with this car, and then as a prospective owner of the 3rd gen tacoma and watching/experiencing all of those issues that left a bad taste in my mouth for Toyota as of late. Then the Tundra etc. etc.
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Thanks for posting this. It helps me understand where you are coming from a bit more. Context is everything when we're typing messages on a forum right?

I hope I don't have issues the the new Taco, but I think a lot of it is luck of the draw unfortunately. This batch was awesome, this one had a couple of bad parts, which turns into a big issue when you sell a few million cars a year. Sometimes I wonder how often the problem is more with the suppliers than the manufacturers, but the brand takes the hit in end. Some of it is also probably design/engineering as you pointed out above.

No instrument cluster is one of the main concerns I have about all of the digital displays. They look super cool and are customizable, but if the screen dies you are SOL and if it's the instrument cluster I'll probably be more expensive than the infotainment. As many of those are easier to remove/replace so the part will be expensive, but the labor should be less.

I'm sorry to hear you had all those crappy experience and it sounds like your current truck is pretty solid!
 
Beninbeta said:
That's fair. What year was it and I do think Hybrids are not really less expensive to maintain vs full EVs, but some of that is luck and build quality too. Tim is there data that you have access to on this? It might be an interesting video. Long term ownership costs ICE, Hybrid, PHEV, EV?
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Jill and I have looked into this a few years ago trying to figure it out. The data is all over the place with different experiences.

This is what we came up with: https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2022/08/ford-f-150-deep-dive-the-cost-of-owning-gas-vs-electric-trucks/
 
Beninbeta said:
Thanks for posting this. It helps me understand where you are coming from a bit more. Context is everything when we're typing messages on a forum right?

I hope I don't have issues the the new Taco, but I think a lot of it is luck of the draw unfortunately. This batch was awesome, this one had a couple of bad parts, which turns into a big issue when you sell a few million cars a year. Sometimes I wonder how often the problem is more with the suppliers than the manufacturers, but the brand takes the hit in end. Some of it is also probably design/engineering as you pointed out above.

No instrument cluster is one of the main concerns I have about all of the digital displays. They look super cool and are customizable, but if the screen dies you are SOL and if it's the instrument cluster I'll probably be more expensive than the infotainment. As many of those are easier to remove/replace so the part will be expensive, but the labor should be less.

I'm sorry to hear you had all those crappy experience and it sounds like your current truck is pretty solid!
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My 09 Tacoma was the best vehicle I ever owned, but that generation is known for that. The 4.0 V6 is just rock solid. The 3rd gen was so disappointing but it showed me that people don't really compare in my opinion, they buy what they're comfortable with. The 3rd gen isn't a great truck but it dominates sales and the owners of those trucks, like so many of us, fiercely defend the issues it has.

I forced myself to look outside my comfort zone when looking for my next new truck and spent decent time behind the wheel in every single one available in 2020/2021. My Sierra has been great, I did have to have the idler pulley replaced under warranty. That seems to be a minor issue they've dealt with and blame the manufacturer of the part, it's just enough out of spec that it causes premature wear on the belt and a squeal develops. Other than that, it's great. I do cross my finger on lifter issues but 38k in... knock on wood. When I look around at the other manufacturers I see a lot of the same potential problems with Ford, GM, RAM & Toyota specifically talking trucks.

That is where my comment came from on "Maintaining an EV" Article after article will tell you they are cheaper to maintain but they're only looking at the basic maintenance components of which there are less than in an EV. There are also a shit ton of electronics in EV's which we know are the #1 reported issue with vehicles these days.
 
Beninbeta said:
You mean less right? The reality is if you replace a battery, expensive, the vehicle is basically brand new again. Batteries are lasting 10+ years and the rest of the vehicle would be tires, brakes (less often due to regen), cabin air filter, wiper fluid. I would expect an EV to go 300-500k pretty easily with a lot less maintaining than with an ICE engine. Having both is less ideal as you still need to maintain the gas engine. The Ram Charger is an interesting hybrid approach though.

What I would give you is replacement/repair cost can be higher for sure.
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https://www.science.org/content/art...rs-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries

"Batteries differ widely in chemistry and construction, which makes it difficult to create efficient recycling systems. And the cells are often held together with tough glues that make them difficult to take apart. That has contributed to an economic obstacle: It's often cheaper for batterymakers to buy freshly mined metals than to use recycled materials."

Yeah, brand new vehicle for you...Not sure about the groundwater though.
 
GMT 900 said:

The Short Winkelvoss twins are first wave?!?
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That Tungsten is a gorgeous truck! But its going to be a pricey ownership, hit something with the front and instead of a bumper you have to replace what looks like a large part of the front end (like a typical SUV). That interior is next level too but all that tech and luxury is going to bite you another 10 years down the road when it needs maintenance.

These things remind me of famous celebrity's; sure they're gorgeous and lovely to look at it, but would you want to live with them long term? Pass.
 
zonedout said:
That Tungsten is a gorgeous truck! But its going to be a pricey ownership, hit something with the front and instead of a bumper you have to replace what looks like a large part of the front end (like a typical SUV). That interior is next level too but all that tech and luxury is going to bite you another 10 years down the road when it needs maintenance.

These things remind me of famous celebrity's; sure they're gorgeous and lovely to look at it, but would you want to live with them long term? Pass.
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Ram design has been odd to me for a while now. They use to have one of the best looking trucks on the road, late 90's - 2010ish. Obviously looks are subjective but in the TFL video Andre nailed it. It looks more like the front half of an SUV than a truck. Hard Pass.
 
Fightnfire said:
Ram design has been odd to me for a while now. They use to have one of the best looking trucks on the road, late 90's - 2010ish. Obviously looks are subjective but in the TFL video Andre nailed it. It looks more like the front half of an SUV than a truck. Hard Pass.
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Hmm, you may be on to something, is this RAM getting ready to use the DT (or is it a DU now?) chassis for a full size RAM SUV, given how the uber expensive (Grand) Waggoneer has been gathering dust on the lots? I mean its been a long time and not even in the US that RAM had one:

Screen-Shot-2016-10-14-at-10.48.57-AM-1024x528-1309585232.png
 
testerdahl said:
Jill and I have looked into this a few years ago trying to figure it out. The data is all over the place with different experiences.

This is what we came up with: https://pickuptrucktalk.com/2022/08/ford-f-150-deep-dive-the-cost-of-owning-gas-vs-electric-trucks/
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Very well written!
GMT 900 said:
https://www.science.org/content/art...rs-are-coming-what-happens-all-dead-batteries

"Batteries differ widely in chemistry and construction, which makes it difficult to create efficient recycling systems. And the cells are often held together with tough glues that make them difficult to take apart. That has contributed to an economic obstacle: It's often cheaper for batterymakers to buy freshly mined metals than to use recycled materials."

Yeah, brand new vehicle for you...Not sure about the groundwater though.
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What does this have to do with my comment exactly?
 
Beninbeta said:
Very well written!

What does this have to do with my comment exactly?
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That while batteries may enable a "new vehicle" power in an aging EV chassis, there is a downside...As detailed in the article on the recycling challenge that is not up to snuff yet on keeping them and their toxicity out of landfills.
 
GMT 900 said:
That while batteries may enable a "new vehicle" power in an aging EV chassis, there is a downside...As detailed in the article on the recycling challenge that is not up to snuff yet on keeping them and their toxicity out of landfills.
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Good point.
 
Fightnfire said:
Ram design has been odd to me for a while now. They use to have one of the best looking trucks on the road, late 90's - 2010ish. Obviously looks are subjective but in the TFL video Andre nailed it. It looks more like the front half of an SUV than a truck. Hard Pass.
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It does look like an SUV, but IMHO the looks aren't the problem. It looks absolutely stunning, I just won't want to pay for the inevitable repairs that would normally be handled by a proper bumper.

Thankfully the volume trims are still using normal bumpers.

I find the Ram a gorgeous looking truck, especially these 5th gens. Perhaps a little ownership bias, but I liked them before I bought one.

I also disagree that the 90's to 2010 (that would be second/third gen rams) looked good, those were the worst with those souless/vacant headlights, I looked into one and it looked back and I couldn't sleep for a week. lol. The 4th gens were a welcome improvement, and now the 5th gens went over the top.

Good thing there is such a wide variety of trucks available, we can all find something that suits our individual tastes.
 
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