30W may quiet it down but may cause issues as well. The 20W was specified for all the 5.7 that had the MDS system until 2022 when they switched to the 0w-20. That's why the 2500 5.7 recommended 30W, no MDS. The theory is that running 30W in an MDS version may cause a shudder and or lifter damage. Never seen it but lots of discussion about it. My local Ram mech has never seen it either or heard of it but he did say there was tech bulletin about it. I have always run 0W or 20W since new myself.
Sealed transmission question. Do you need to service it?
- Thread starter testerdahl
- Start date
yes and no
It's not possible that a 30 weight causes damage. Oil viscosity is a range of values dependent on temperature, 30 weight at 100 degrees is thinner than 20 weight at 50 degrees for example.
Have you tried redline 5w-30?
This is true about any multi-viscosity oils, kinda the reason they even exist. But the -20 runs thinner at standard operating temp. That was the reason they used it. I'm sure it was a conservative decision by engineering.
Engineering wouldn't choose a 20 weight on their own, but they have to listen to the bean counters who are trying to keep that corporate MPG up as high as they can and every fraction of a percent saves them money.
There are a number of examples of cars/trucks back pedalling on a thin oil and moving back up in viscosity; Ford did it, Toyota has done it, and even the same engine sold in other parts of the world can have a higher grade oil recommended for it.
The hemi doesn't need 20 weight. It can run great on a 40 weight (I've done it and even towed with it). Especially when towing in the summer its best to keep that HT/HS up above 3.0 if you can.
I’ve actually met him in person at an event. Nice guy for sure and good channel. There’s a reason he has so many subscribers.
Sorry, I just don't believe that. I need to see some actual data that says a 5w-30 is better. No one has produced that yet. About the only thing I've seen was the guy putting Hellcat pumps in his Hemi to better the oiling of the top end. Everything else has been shade tree forum guys.
What don't you believe, that I ran 0w-40 without issues, that some manufacturers have backpedalled, that some recommend a higher weight in different parts of the world for the same engine, or that a higher HT/HS offers more protection?
5w-30 is better. It's basic fact of tribology and has nothing to do with the ram or the hemi. Generally 5w-30 has a higher HT/HS which means it protects everything better. You can find some 5w-20 with higher HT/HS than some other 5w-30 but normally that's not the case. Higher viscosity protects more.
The move to x-20 and x-16 etc is driven purely by fuel economy reasons. Manufacturers need to keep raising those values so they jack with the oil weight as much as they can to keep the engine barely alive while eeking out fractional gains in MPG.
The hellcat pumps aren't necessary. There is no lubrication issue in the hemi like a few guys (uncle tony, reignighted) on YT are claiming. It's just a bad lifter that comes that way from the vendor and you either get one or you don't.
I clearly stated what I don't believe. The benefit of switching to 5w-30 is quantifiable and measurable. Don't get defensive, not calling you a liar about your 0w-40. I'm saying you are not going to tell me anything that I have not read or experienced myself. Obviously, with 5w-30, the hths numbers are higher and everyone clings to that as "the proof" that is the better choice. But does it matter enough to warrant changing? And that's my belief, that they don't. That's the problem with places like BTOG and other forums, nobody stops to ask if it really matters. The same with catch cans, the thermostat changes, etc. My experience is that I have taken two modern Hemi trucks well over 100K and they were fine. I bet there is one out there with +500K and it's fine also. And you can run 0W-40 for over 500K and have nothing go wrong. Wouldn't doubt it. The point is that it doesn't prove either one is better by a measure that matters.
It seems to me that many owners overthink things. I mean, I've asked engineers about catch cans, oil weight, etc... I've also talked with many mechanics about those items. They all tend to shrug and say things like, "well you can. It doesn't really help or hurt anything."
Two mechanics I know have started to flat out refuse to put too heavy weight of an oil in an engine due to how the crankshaft needs to be properly lubed and a heavier oil can clog the oil injectors and shift the crankshaft to wear it actually hits metal trying to move the heavier oil.
For me, I just think there were 2 million trucks sold last year and that's pretty much on pace for the last decade. I'd wager the amount of owners who are adding catch cans or using heavier oil in those trucks is .00004%. My point is if heavier oil had a major benefit, I'd hear of a lot more owners making the switch. They aren't and it hasn't impacted their trucks at all. We'd also see a lot of engine failures or warranty claims if the lighter weight was causing problems for the 10 million trucks sold in the last 5 years for example.
No one's getting defensive, I phrased the question because it wasn't clear to me what you didn't believe. I was asking which facts you were questioning because they're all true facts.
Why do you think the same 5.7 engine used in the 2500 recommends 5w-30? Because of the protection, and because fuel savings aren't important in a 2500. In the 1500 the user manual recommends 5w-30 for severe duty. That is the simple tradeoff you make: more protection, less fuel economy.
Do you need it? That depends on your definition of "need". The goal for my truck is to run it until it drops, so yes I absolutely want the most protection especially considering the towing I do and the temps I see while doing so. If you swap trucks every few years then there is certainly less need to run a high quality oil.
Same thing with thermostat. We know for a fact that an engine which runs cooler lives longer all else being equal. No one is going to convince me that hitting 250F is good for the engine, when a simple tstat swap can drop those temps down to 220F peaks instead. And even in the cold of winter the 180F has enough heat to keep me toasted, this might be a different result in Alaska or the harsher norths of Canada.
Same thing with changing your oil on time. Do you need to change every 5000 miles? No. But you increase the probability that your engine lives longer.
This is the problem listening to mechanics and not engineers or tribologists. There is no way a 30 weight clogs anything that a 20 weight wouldn't. We know that because oils are not just a single viscosity, they are a viscosity at a certain temperature. A 30 weight at 100C is thinner than a 20 weight at 50C.
If an engine can run 20 weight at -30C then it can run a 30 weight at -20C and still be thinner than it and not have any issues.
This doesn't make any sense Tim: "
The hemi is a postivive displacement oil pump. It's pumping oil regardless of the viscosity. All that happens is you see a very slight bump in oil pressure.
This doesn't disprove that an engine can live longer under the same conditions with an oil that offers more protection.
This goes back to the definition of "need". Some of us like keeping our trucks in as good condition as possible. It doesn't cost you any extra to buy the higher viscosity, and there is literally no downside other than a fractional drop in MPG. So why not run it?
Over on ramforum there has been much discussion about hemi tick and how one oil choice (Redline 5w-30) actually removes the ticking sound from like 80% of those that tried it. I don't know the exact stats, over 50 have tried it and reported back over the years now. You can't convince someone who has had a ticking engine and removed that sound by swapping in better oil that oil choice isn't important.
Here is chart I made showing 3 different oils from HPL, it is comparing how thick an oil is at a given temperatue.
If a 20 weight can be run without damage at -20C, well then there is no reason the 30 weight can't be run at -15C (for example) because its even thinner.
Viscosity causing damage is only a problem at the very extreme end when temps get excessively cold. But even then, that's what the winter rating is for (0w). Any 0w should in theory be usable at the same temps in the cold. We're discussing the hot viscosity, the 30 weight aspect, and that is not going to cause any damage at normal engine temps.
If a 20 weight can be run without damage at -20C, well then there is no reason the 30 weight can't be run at -15C (for example) because its even thinner.
Viscosity causing damage is only a problem at the very extreme end when temps get excessively cold. But even then, that's what the winter rating is for (0w). Any 0w should in theory be usable at the same temps in the cold. We're discussing the hot viscosity, the 30 weight aspect, and that is not going to cause any damage at normal engine temps.
Fightnfire
Moderator
This thread is interesting and I'm trying to pay attention lol.
However, I think of it similar to my uneducated feelings about oil catch cans. Engineers and many Service techs say not needed, no point. Some owners say yes. Mechanics seem split.
However, I think of it similar to my uneducated feelings about oil catch cans. Engineers and many Service techs say not needed, no point. Some owners say yes. Mechanics seem split.