R2 Launch Event

[GMT 900]

What it does do is make it easy to tell what it is. And there are so many vehicles today that you can't tell what it is until your close. So it's good for brand ID, but you are likely not their target customer @Dusdaddy!

@testerdahl it does seem sometimes like you are a little tiny bit anti-ev, since you asked in your video. Do you have an instance where you wholeheartedly recommended an EV, even for a specific customer segment? That would change my mind.

@GMT 900 I'm not saying that article wasn't or isn't still relevant, but that times have changed a lot since 2021 mid-pandemic. I would also add that ever vehicle manufacturer had taken advantage of tax payers in some way, that's how our capitalistic society works. It's all about shareholders once you are a public company. And as far as bias goes, I have only ever seen negative posts (maybe I missed some others) from you about EVs so far so if that is always going to be your point of view then I would say, noted. You should start a new general discussion about that topic. You have a lot of good resources on all topics to support your side. I'd love to see what you could do for the counter argument as well?

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure what context the statement "times have changed a lot since 2021 mid-pandemic" is being used; technology of MRNA vaccines maybe, but given the time lines involved in developing propulsion needing articles like aircraft and land vehicles, it is isn't that long. Vehicles that have not been released yet had their engineering work and supply chains frozen in 2021.

I would also add that ever vehicle manufacturer had taken advantage of tax payers in some way, that's how our capitalistic society works

Generality, cite specific examples of such subsidies beyond BEV to other manufactures. Here is one: a tax credit of $7500 in favor of one propulsion (BEV) system. Tim's tax deduction doesn't cover propulsive type as he has has diesel, hybrid and gas. Don't try to school someone on capitalism with Das Kapital as your reference. Try Locke (yeah, not cool like Marx with the Greta crowd). In a nutshell:

Capitalism is an economic system that relies on private rather than public ownership of the means of production. The law of supply and demand determines what goods are produced and the prices that are charged for them.

Tax policy only works to limit, modify, or pick winners in capitalism.

And as far as bias goes, I have only ever seen negative posts (maybe I missed some others) from you about EVs so far so if that is always going to be your point of view then I would say, noted.

Ah, the refuge of the feeble, the ad hominem attack, activist variant. Use the "bias" bad word (gee, you don't comment positively on Nissan Frontiers, are you BIASED against them?) and than add all the knuckle dragging Neanderthal imaging ("Negative posts" "so if that is always going to be point of view") to contrast to your "enlightened view of the world." Man, you would thing Evergreen State College would come up with a new indoctrination SOP, this schtick is getting old. The "noted" is a nice touch, can never get enough Big Brother AKA Blue Check Mark tropes.

Counter arguments? You really want to go to the 7 year old African children dying ny mining battery cobalt? The fact the US electrical grid can barely keep LA cool in the summer, let alone, charge 10 million BEVs ("but it is all at night!" Yeah, so much for the shift workers) or that BEVs are not really zero emission as the emissions already happened...Kind of like they say an AV-8B Harrier can do Air to Air, but neglect to tell you it needs GCI or E-2/E-3 vectoring to the target...It doesn't have its own radar.

 

[Beninbeta]

Thanks for the reply.

Not sure what context the statement "times have changed a lot since 2021 mid-pandemic" is being used; technology of MRNA vaccines maybe, but given the time lines involved in developing propulsion needing articles like aircraft and land vehicles, it is isn't that long. Vehicles that have not been released yet had their engineering work and supply chains frozen in 2021.


Generality, cite specific examples of such subsidies beyond BEV to other manufactures. Here is one: a tax credit of $7500 in favor of one propulsion (BEV) system. Tim's tax deduction doesn't cover propulsive type as he has has diesel, hybrid and gas. Don't try to school someone on capitalism with Das Kapital as your reference. Try Locke (yeah, not cool like Marx with the Greta crowd). In a nutshell:

Capitalism is an economic system that relies on private rather than public ownership of the means of production. The law of supply and demand determines what goods are produced and the prices that are charged for them.

Tax policy only works to limit, modify, or pick winners in capitalism.


Ah, the refuge of the feeble, the ad hominem attack, activist variant. Use the "bias" bad word (gee, you don't comment positively on Nissan Frontiers, are you BIASED against them?) and than add all the knuckle dragging Neanderthal imaging ("Negative posts" "so if that is always going to be point of view") to contrast to your "enlightened view of the world." Man, you would thing Evergreen State College would come up with a new indoctrination SOP, this schtick is getting old. The "noted" is a nice touch, can never get enough Big Brother AKA Blue Check Mark tropes.

Counter arguments? You really want to go to the 7 year old African children dying ny mining battery cobalt? The fact the US electrical grid can barely keep LA cool in the summer, let alone, charge 10 million BEVs ("but it is all at night!" Yeah, so much for the shift workers) or that BEVs are not really zero emission as the emissions already happened...Kind of like they say an AV-8B Harrier can do Air to Air, but neglect to tell you it needs GCI or E-2/E-3 vectoring to the target...It doesn't have its own radar.

Thanks for the reply. I said I liked the frontier actually and even recommended to another person here. I do hope you feel better now and have a great weekend!

 

[GMT 900]

Thanks for the reply. I said I liked the frontier actually and even recommended to another person here. I do hope you feel better now and have a great weekend!

Message boards come and go...Have some Beta fun this weekend.

 

[Beninbeta]

I think I'm going to clean my garage, but I'll have some music so that'll make it fun! One thing I learned as a teacher, Special Ed, Technology programs, higher ed, every person has super powers and two of yours are definitely research an writing!

 

[GMT 900]

I think I'm going to clean my garage, but I'll have some music so that'll make it fun! One thing I learned as a teacher, Special Ed, Technology programs, higher ed, every person has super powers and two of yours are definitely research an writing!

Well, cleaning out the garage may not be fun in itself but the music keeping you going makes it better as you say...Plus so satysfying in the end when it looks great. I will take the compliment, thanks, but think it is my nature to be a bit contrarian (I think I actually used the word in a post on this board). Good to have people like yourself who try different things and give us all some great information on it all. Your webpage with all the neat affiliates page gear makes me wish I had some of that stuff in the field back in the day!

 

[Beninbeta]

Thanks @GMT 900, and it was 100% a compliment. I admire your depth and different style even probably because it's so much better than most. On my end it's great trying new things as much as I can, but it's even bette when you find those really good products and those are the ones that go on my website! Have a fantastic weekend.

 

[GMT 900]

Thanks @GMT 900, and it was 100% a compliment. I admire your depth and different style even probably because it's so much better than most. On my end it's great trying new things as much as I can, but it's even bette when you find those really good products and those are the ones that go on my website! Have a fantastic weekend.

You Too!, Mucky here, but we will make it!

 

[testerdahl]

Good on everyone for a solid discussion/debate without turning ugly.

 

[GMT 900]

Good on everyone for a solid discussion/debate without turning ugly.

It's hard these days, but improving at work. The amount of e-mails and TEAMS messages inflamed so many people back in the COVD days because the conversational tone was gone, leading to offenses never intended. Now, we are back to where we can talk to team members, our peers and the higher ups and I encourage it unless "conversation" records are needed. Conversely, can't do that in message boards, so I try to inject humor ("Evergreen State College" LOL) so someone reading my post so they realize I am making my point in a jovial, animated, next to each other in bar sort of manner. Sometimes it backfires, but members of this board are so much more respectful of each other than most in other forums; it works out and we are all learning a lot.

 

[testerdahl]

It's hard these days, but improving at work. The amount of e-mails and TEAMS messages inflamed so many people back in the COVD days because the conversational tone was gone, leading to offenses never intended. Now, we are back to where we can talk to team members, our peers and the higher ups and I encourage it unless "conversation" records are needed. Conversely, can't do that in message boards, so I try to inject humor ("Evergreen State College" LOL) so someone reading my post so they realize I am making my point in a jovial, animated, next to each other in bar sort of manner. Sometimes it backfires, but members of this board are so much more respectful of each other than most in other forums; it works out and we are all learning a lot.

I try to moderate the board to keep the conversation civil. I hate inattentive forum board moderators.

BTW, it is funny to read these messages now from @Beninbeta. I cleaned my garage yesterday too. LOL

 

[Beninbeta]

so I try to inject humor ("Evergreen State College" LOL) so someone reading my post so they realize I am making my point in a jovial, animated, next to each other in bar sort of manner. Sometimes it backfires, but members of this board are so much more respectful of each other than most in other forums; it works out and we are all learning a lot.

Same here. What I like about posting, for me is can write something out and read it, delete it and write it in a better way. But no matter how your write things, they can still touch nerves as we don't really know each other well enough not to do that which is something you do learn quickly face to face.

My garage is ready for the Taco and all the crap I have coming for it. @GMT 900 there will be things to check out very soon!

 

[Rogue Skunk]

I watched the video a couple of times, my opinion, first whats with the social enviro shit at the beginning, did they forget about the mining needed for these trucks, then it gets into the Apple Steve Jobs new product presentation style complete with the same wardrobe, many companies use this same style, its old and out dated, if Rivian wants to show their innovative, start with a new presentation they can call their own, they have a product that very few people want to buy, their trying to sell an expensive truck/suv, not an iphone, impress me, show me what the truck can do, take a prototype on the Rubicon Trail and see how it fares, if not take it down a street full of deep potholes, perhaps through a cornfield with petal floored. Rivian is going to need a cash infusion soon, the only big order they have is from Amazon, they're going to have to cough up some more cash also, Im not about to pre-order an suv that has zero record on anything, can they keep the announced 45K base start, this sounds too Cybertruckish, what about parts if I smash the thing up. Boy did I write a lot of stuff just to say Im not interested in buying a Rivian.

 

[testerdahl]

Boy did I write a lot of stuff just to say Im not interested in buying a Rivian.

You said it...

 

[Rogue Skunk]

You said it...

Let me finish off, Im on a roll, anybody who is starting out originally building EV's are trying to claim they are a tech company, if your product is on four wheels, rolls and carries people or freight, its an automotive company, being an automotive company brings on huge liabilities, you just cant claim software glitch that veered the car/truck off the road over a cliff and killed people, Tesla is starting to figure this out, yet they are still trying to claim they are a tech company, Tesla and Rivian are starting to find out the older ICE OEM's have that they don't, a lot of experience in handling things like economic down turns and up turns, high/low interest rates, when to hire or layoff, and automotive manufacturing life in general, Tesla and Rivian can claim they hired the best people to run their companies, sure money talks and anybody can claim they hired the best, thats all crap, the workers have to have the mind set that their jobs depend on economy, ICE workers know this very well and are usually prepared for down/up turns. Its a free market, or it should be, if your company depends on tax incentives, close up now and leave, the last I looked, nobody wants to give me a tax incentive for running an efficient 3.0 LZ0 Duramax.

If an OEM truck/car needs a tax incentive to sell their product, their truck/car is not good enough period.