New engine and vehicle reliability?

Fightnfire

Fightnfire

Moderator
I've been seeing lots of articles from everywhere talking about the GM lifter issues and their new recall on the 6.2's which isn't lifter related. The HEMI issues which like GM were a bit all over the place including lifters. Then Ford is recall city with issues in both the 3.5 and 5.0. Toyota recalled all of their new TT V6's but have still completely ignored the hybrid vehicles with the same engine? Odd.

Then today I saw this article: https://www.autoblog.com/news/engine-teardown-ford-coyote-v8

The Coyote, from what I see, is regularly talked about as one of the best engines out there but there are still lots of issues with it. I thought port and direct injection was supposed to solve this problem? I'm constantly told by people in YT videos or in online forums that's it's the new gold standard. The 5.0 has a known oil consumption problem, as do some of the GM engines. After only 100k miles it looks that bad with port and direct injection? (This isn't a one time issue, it's happening quite a bit)

I know this is always a debated topic not only here or in Tim's videos but everywhere.

What are we supposed to make of all of these issues?

(Ponders making the same thread for transmissions)
 
What concerns me with these engines, no matter who is the manufacturer, is will they hold up enough for the third and fourth owner? The ones that are working a minimum wage job to support a family instead of having spending money. The ones who need that truck because missing a bus can mean the ruin of grocery goods that they can't afford to replace. (No one wants to wait an hour in the summer sun with a gallon of milk.)

These engines are high mileage and poorly maintained; one step away from death but that owner depends on that rig. That's why durability is important to me. It's why I do so much maintenance to my truck and do it way sooner than what is suggested.
 
Saddle Tramp said:
What concerns me with these engines, no matter who is the manufacturer, is will they hold up enough for the third and fourth owner? The ones that are working a minimum wage job to support a family instead of having spending money. The ones who need that truck because missing a bus can mean the ruin of grocery goods that they can't afford to replace. (No one wants to wait an hour in the summer sun with a gallon of milk.)

These engines are high mileage and poorly maintained; one step away from death but that owner depends on that rig. That's why durability is important to me. It's why I do so much maintenance to my truck and do it way sooner than what is suggested.
Click to expand...

You're exactly right. I would also point to the people who keep their vehicles for a long time. I put over 200k on my last truck (2009 Tacoma) but I do only plan on going 125ish on this truck because my plan all along was to get into a 3/4 ton which I will keep for a loooong time.
 
You really think there is something to all this? I really don't put as much into the perceived engine issues. So much of it seems exaggerated. Sure, the recall of the GM and Toyotas are legit but traced to specific manufacturing issues. That's happened plenty of times before. Don't get me wrong, I love to throw darts at fanboys over the latest "doom&gloom" videos but that's for fun. Hell, my hemi exhaust leak tick is crazy loud, so I get some of it myself. I just turn the radio up until the engine heats up.

I remember when learning to turn wrenches back in the 80's, you planned to replace or rebuild engines around 100K miles. Now? It just seems like that number is 200K miles instead. Starters, power steering pumps, etc. every 40-50K. I'm just blown away that a motor as large and as powerful as these trucks have can get such great mileage and last as long as they do with little needed repairs. This truck is 14 years old, and it needs less repairs than my previous one which needed less than the one before that.

I think it's like a lot of the so-called news we get now-a-days: if you really drill down on facts and figures, you kinda go "Huh, that's not too bad."
 
I do think there's something to it, what exactly ...I don't really know. But to continually dismiss it, I wouldn't do that either.

The main point of my post was two fold, general new engine reliability and a port and direct injection, ya know "the way everyone should be building them" looks that terrible after 100k miles.
 
Fightnfire said:
I've been seeing lots of articles from everywhere talking about the GM lifter issues and their new recall on the 6.2's which isn't lifter related. The HEMI issues which like GM were a bit all over the place including lifters. Then Ford is recall city with issues in both the 3.5 and 5.0. Toyota recalled all of their new TT V6's but have still completely ignored the hybrid vehicles with the same engine? Odd.

Then today I saw this article: https://www.autoblog.com/news/engine-teardown-ford-coyote-v8

The Coyote, from what I see, is regularly talked about as one of the best engines out there but there are still lots of issues with it. I thought port and direct injection was supposed to solve this problem? I'm constantly told by people in YT videos or in online forums that's it's the new gold standard. The 5.0 has a known oil consumption problem, as do some of the GM engines. After only 100k miles it looks that bad with port and direct injection? (This isn't a one time issue, it's happening quite a bit)

I know this is always a debated topic not only here or in Tim's videos but everywhere.

What are we supposed to make of all of these issues?

(Ponders making the same thread for transmissions)
Click to expand...
Looking at the time stamp, I was actually engaged in a spirited conversation with a new guy from Alex on Autos channel today on engine reliability. I guess it is now called Auto Buyer's Guide. Nice guy.

My view is this: reliability overall is better than ever. The concern is all the add ons (turbos, hybrid systems, sensors, etc...).

I'm actually seeing more issues with transmissions as of late.

It is interesting you bring up the 5.0L. Jill and I had stated several times our findings pointed out that engine had more issues than the EcoBoost yet turbo haters didn't want to hear that. So I gave up stating it. All it did was piss people off because we weren't "telling the truth."

People want to believe that port and direct injection is the holy grail to stopping carbon buildup as well. When I talk with engineers, they shrug their shoulders and say things like, "I guess it helps."

To recap, statistically, across the 78 million vehicles sold each year, I believe around 1-2 percent will experience complete engine failure. That's just statistics. You are going to have engine failure. There's simply no way to ever build a perfect engine every time. The costs to fix the engines are going to be pretty expensive. The cost is going to be relative based on that person's feeling. Some people are going to see the cost as OMG and others are going to grumble and others are going to pay cash. That's just how it is.

Same with transmissions and transmission failures.
 
testerdahl said:
My view is this: reliability overall is better than ever. The concern is all the add ons (turbos, hybrid systems, sensors, etc...).
Click to expand...


These are my exact thoughts as well. Yep, there are some common issues out there like DFI & dirty valves. Or any of the multi-displacement systems causing issues with lifters but most of the actual catastrophic failures are so rare to be insignificant.

Like Tim says, it's the additional small components that usually fail. Which makes sense as they add parts, statistically, they add points of failure. Which are probably why PHEVs are considered the least reliable right now. They have everything an ICE has as well as everything an EV has. That many more failure points than either one. Yet, it seems they don't have a higher cost of ownership. And to me, reliability is a big part of the cost of ownership but not the way others consider it. If a vehicle breaks down more than others but the overall cost is lower, it's reliable in my eyes. My hemi ticks like the 60 Minutes stopwatch but I consider it the most reliable engine I've ever owned.
 
I regularly interact with AI as a part of my job, I did some digging and then had AI do some digging. It's using sources from all over. Here is a quick summary:

⚙️ Key Reliability Factors to Track​

We’ll focus on these common long-term reliability categories:
  • Engine & drivetrain
  • Transmission
  • Electronics/infotainment
  • Build quality/body/hardware
  • Cost of maintenance/repairs

🏁 Ford F-150 Reliability Evolution​

2005–2010​

  • Engines: 4.6L and 5.4L Triton V8s had cam phaser and spark plug issues (especially the 5.4L).
  • Transmission: 4-speed and 6-speed automatics — decent longevity.
  • Electronics: Basic — fewer problems.
  • Build quality: Strong chassis; known for rust on rockers and tailgates.
  • Reliability Verdict: Moderate (Engine issues brought down otherwise durable trucks)

2015​

  • New aluminum body = corrosion resistant but costly to repair.
  • EcoBoost turbo V6s became widespread — offered great performance, but early versions had carbon buildup and timing chain issues.
  • 6- & 10-speed autos began appearing — early 10-speeds had shifting complaints.
  • Electronics: Sync 3 was a big step up but not always glitch-free.
  • Reliability Verdict: Mixed, better than 2005 for some, worse for others.

2020–2024​

  • Much better ride, tech, and fuel economy.
  • 10-speed autos mostly refined now.
  • Electronics: frequent complaints — glitches, failed sensors, power tailgate motors, lane keep assist, etc.
  • Cost of repair is higher: sensors, cameras, adaptive cruise, etc.
  • Reliability Verdict: Technologically better, mechanically solid, but more potential failure points.

🧱 Chevy Silverado 1500​

2005–2010​

  • 5.3L Vortec V8 = very reliable if you avoid AFM (Active Fuel Management) lifter issues.
  • Simple interiors and fewer electronics.
  • Transmission: 4L60 and 6L80 were generally reliable.
  • Reliability Verdict: Strong overall, especially with the 5.3L non-AFM engines.

2015​

  • AFM still problematic in higher-mileage trucks.
  • Infotainment upgraded, but electrical gremlins began popping up.
  • Still body-on-frame, rugged.
  • Reliability Verdict: Moderate, engine durability down slightly from older years.

2020–2024​

  • Dynamic Fuel Management (DFM) replaces AFM — mixed reports, but fewer lifter failures.
  • 10-speed trans better tuned.
  • Tech-heavy interior; touchscreen/sensor malfunctions more common.
  • Reliability Verdict: More refined, more expensive to fix, modest long-term issues emerging.

🐏 Ram 1500​

2005–2010​

  • 5.7L HEMI durable but thirsty. The rest of the truck? Not great.
  • Front suspension, electronics, and interiors were cheap and broke often.
  • Transmission: 545RFE better than the old 4-speed.
  • Reliability Verdict: Below average, except drivetrain.

2015​

  • Huge quality jump — especially 2013+
  • Air suspension added complexity and future repair risk.
  • Touchscreens started to become common.
  • HEMI still tough, but tick/noise issues more common.
  • Reliability Verdict: Improved, still hit-or-miss on components.

2020–2024​

  • Among the nicest interiors in the segment.
  • HEMI + 8-speed = good combo, though cylinder deactivation (MDS) still a weak spot.
  • Air suspension, electronics, and infotainment are common complaint areas.
  • Reliability Verdict: Great ride, decent powertrain, but lots of “nuisance” problems.

🔄 Overall Long-Term Trends (2005–2024)​

Category2005–20102011–20152016–20202021–2024
Powertrain durability✅ Strong⚠️ Good but more complexity⚠️ Mixed (turbos, AFM/DFM)⚠️ Good but complex
Electronics✅ Simple, fewer failures⚠️ More modules = more risk❌ Many glitches❌ Frequent complaints
Build quality✅ Tough, some rust issues✅ Solid improvements✅ Higher refinement⚠️ Materials are better, tech failures more frequent
Cost of repairs💲 Moderate💲💲 Moderate-high💲💲💲 Higher💲💲💲 High due to sensors, parts
Overall reliability✅ Often high with basic maintenance⚠️ More hit-or-miss⚠️ Variable by brand⚠️ Very refined but less “mechanical toughness”
 
Now, here it is factoring the price of trucks in the same period for a correlation of what you pay and what you get.

Here’s a quick, clear summary that connects truck cost over time with reliability over time, based on trends from Ford, Ram, and GM full-size pickups between 2005 and 2024:


💸​


📈​


  • 2005 average MSRP for a well-equipped full-size pickup: ~$30,000
  • 2024 average MSRP for a similarly equipped truck: $55,000–$75,000
  • High-end trims (Lariat, Denali, Limited) can exceed $80,000–$90,000
  • Financing and insurance costs have also increased significantly

📉​


  • While performance, tech, and comfort have improved:
    • Long-term reliability is flat or down, especially due to electronics and tech failures.
    • Cost of ownership (maintenance + repairs) has gone up, not down.

🧠​


You're paying nearly 2× more for a new truck today, but you're not getting 2× the reliability.
In fact, you're often getting more hassle from tech glitches, higher repair costs, and shorter-lasting components in exchange for comfort and features.
Click to expand...


⚖️ Net Takeaway​


  • 2005–2012 trucks: Lower cost, higher durability, fewer things to break.
  • 2020–2024 trucks: High cost, high tech, but lower reliability per dollar spent.

If you care about value over time, a well-maintained truck from the mid-2010s or a base-trim modern truck with fewer bells and whistles may be your best bet.
 
So, in summary... I'm not quite sure what you guys are smoking but pass some over here. I've owned several trucks in my life going back to the 1990's models. They were simpler, much easier to maintain and more reliable. It doesn't mean they didn't have issues, everything does, but nothing compared to today.

Also, just to jump in front of it for the umpteenth time... inflations is not a fair way to discuss the price trends in vehicles. Even if you use it, truck prices have significantly outpaced the CPI.
  • CPI (Consumer Price Index) inflation from 2005–2024 is about 60–70%.
  • But truck prices have risen 100–150% in many cases.
    • Example: A 2005 Ford F-150 Lariat ~ $33,000
      Adjusted for inflation = ~$53,000 today
      But a 2024 Lariat? Often $65,000–$75,000 when comparably equipped.
  • Conclusion: Prices grew much faster than inflation.

@testerdahl you've asked me for data a few different time and I just haven't had the time. I've been doing a bunch of deep dives on reliability for commercial diesel trucks across makes over the last few weeks for work and thought it wouldn't be very hard to do the same for pickup trucks.
 
Here are it's sources for this info:

1. Primary data and source types used​


  • Tracks owner-reported problems across 17+ reliability categories (engine, transmission, electronics, etc.).
  • Reliability scores are based on surveys from hundreds of thousands of vehicle owners.
  • Frequently cited for identifying:
    • Ford 5.4L 3V Triton issues
    • GM AFM/DFM lifter failures
    • Ram air suspension and Uconnect glitches
    • Toyota Tundra high long-term reliability
  • Example: Consumer Reports Car Reliability Rankings

2. J.D. Power U.S. Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) & Initial Quality Study (IQS)​


  • IQS measures problems per 100 vehicles in the first 90 days.
  • VDS measures problems in 3-year-old vehicles (longer-term snapshot).
  • Notable for showing:
    • Ram 1500 and Silverado trending downward in recent years due to electronics and driver-assist tech failures.
    • F-150 and Tundra scoring well in certain years for fewer powertrain issues.
  • Example: J.D. Power VDS Reports

3. Long-Term Ownership Data from iSeeCars, CarComplaints.com, and RepairPal​


  • iSeeCars: Tracks which vehicles are most likely to reach 200,000+ miles.
    • Tundra, older GM 6.0L V8 trucks, and 2012+ F-150 5.0L V8s score well.
  • CarComplaints.com: Crowdsourced data on problem trends by model year.
    • Graphical “problem spot” trends are especially useful for identifying engine/transmission issues over time.
  • RepairPal: Aggregated average annual repair costs and frequency by model.
  • Examples:
    • CarComplaints – Ford F-150
    • iSeeCars – Longest-lasting Trucks

4. OEM Service Bulletins & Enthusiast Forums​


  • Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) from NHTSA and OEMs help show known engineering flaws (e.g., Ford cam phasers, GM lifter collapse).
  • Forums (e.g., F150Forum, RamForumZ, GM-Trucks.com, TundraSolutions) help confirm patterns:
    • What’s common
    • What’s rare but costly
    • What fails early vs late
  • While anecdotal, patterns across thousands of users are useful for identifying design weaknesses that don’t always show up in large studies.

5. Automotive Journalism and Expert Reviews​


  • Publications like MotorTrend, Car and Driver, and The Drive often highlight trends manufacturers won't advertise.
  • Also useful for:
    • Tracking changes in powertrains and suspensions
    • Reporting early issues in redesigned models (e.g., 2022+ Tundra turbo oil line leaks)
    • Spotlighting complex tech and infotainment failures

🧠 Combined Methodology​


I synthesized:
  • Owner-reported problem frequency (CR, JD Power, forums)
  • Design/engineering changes (OEM specs, reviews)
  • Problem severity and repair cost (RepairPal, CarComplaints)
  • Known technical faults (TSBs, dealer memos, shop bulletins)

This helps paint a reliable year-by-year picture not just of whether something breaks, but how serious it is, how often, and how expensive.
 
Fightnfire said:
So, in summary... I'm not quite sure what you guys are smoking but pass some over here. I've owned several trucks in my life going back to the 1990's models. They were simpler, much easier to maintain and more reliable. It doesn't mean they didn't have issues, everything does, but nothing compared to today.

Also, just to jump in front of it for the umpteenth time... inflations is not a fair way to discuss the price trends in vehicles. Even if you use it, truck prices have significantly outpaced the CPI.
  • CPI (Consumer Price Index) inflation from 2005–2024 is about 60–70%.
  • But truck prices have risen 100–150%in many cases.
    • Example: A 2005 Ford F-150 Lariat ~ $33,000
      Adjusted for inflation = ~$53,000 today
      But a 2024 Lariat? Often $65,000–$75,000 when comparably equipped.
  • Conclusion: Prices grew much faster than inflation.

@testerdahl you've asked me for data a few different time and I just haven't had the time. I've been doing a bunch of deep dives on reliability for commercial diesel trucks across makes over the last few weeks for work and thought it wouldn't be very hard to do the same for pickup trucks.
Click to expand...



Simple AI searches are prone to giving out "summarized misinformation". It's often the greatest example of "garbage in/garbage out" that exists. All they can do is gather all the info there is and count it without checking the source for any sort of accuracy. So, every one of those "doom & gloom" videos or web articles, just add to the negative count as far as the AI is concerned. You can ask AI what the negatives to a turbo truck engine are and it replies with the need for premium fuel yet most don't require it and some NA engines do. Ask it what the most reliable full-size truck is, and the Tundra is the overwhelming winner.

As for pricing data, it just depends on where you get the data and how you use it.

2005 Ford 4wd SuperCrew = MSRP $37,760 Source is KBB
Enter that into the CPI Calculator from the government or this one to show what that is now, replies with $62,435 avg.
2025 Ford 4wd SuperCrew = MSRP $63,360 Source Ford

A difference of $925. Not exactly "much faster" than inflation. One year of gas savings because of better mpg will be over $1000 alone. And I won't even consider all the advanced features that now come on a Lariat that were, at best, optional in 2005 if they were even available.
 
My main problem is the cost of repair and maintenance. I get it, inflation happened, but man shops are charging between 125-180$ an hour where I am to fix stuff and I know the mechanics is not seeing half of that. Add to that the proliferation of sensors in everything, it takes a lot more time to replace was used to be a simple thing. On top of that, you need to buy the damn sensors that go bad and that adds to the final bill.

I like the convenience of new trucks, but it comes at a cost whether it's upfront and/or maintenance. I will be quite curious on how the trucks of today will age out. Seems like the 2010 trucks are still doing fine for now. We will see in 10-15 years how the 2020's truck will fare.

The problem with the above AI summary is that it does not weight the problems or provide actual expert insight. My radio glitching out every now and then is not the same as my transmission taking a dump every year (Thanks Ford...) It gives a very shallow response to the questions asked.

I would still be quite curious on what it says about transmission.
 
Fightnfire said:
  • But truck prices have risen 100–150% in many cases.
    • Example: A 2005 Ford F-150 Lariat ~ $33,000
      Adjusted for inflation = ~$53,000 today
      But a 2024 Lariat? Often $65,000–$75,000 when comparably equipped.
Click to expand...
I’d still argue a 2005 Lariat isn’t a 2025 Lariat. That’s not apples to apples. I’d say a 2005 Lariat is not even an XL in 2025. That truck just doesn’t exist anymore.
 
What an absolutely pathetic thread. The GM faboys on this forum are literally grasping for straws now attempting to make other makes engines look bad after GMs absolute abomination of an engine run these 4 years years.

I've been watching this forum for a while and Fightnfire has to be one of the worst examples of crybaby GM owner in denial I've ever seen. Every thread about an issue people are having with their GM truck you can bet Fightnfire will be there in the replies saying "oh yeah other people are having that problem but I don't mind, my GMC 6.2L pile is perfect in every way...

And Tim Esterdahl who as a journalist are supposed to be impartial and unbiased but all I've seen you do for the past 2 years is gloating and crowing over GM trucks over and over.

80% of this forum are GM owners (my condolences) but I would assume people could be impartial to other makes despite that fact, I guess I thought to much of you guys.
 
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