Thanks for asking the question to the Toyota engineer Tim. It sounds like the engineer you spoke to had not fully looked into the problem or maybe was just holding back. I looked into it quite a bit a few years ago as I owned a 2011 F150 with 3.5 Ecoboost and it had deteriorated performance due to carbon buildup. There are several reasons why it's a problem. Catch cans are the best option you can get since you can't have breathers on engines anymore. As with most things, it is mostly due to regulations relating to emissions. Washing the valves with port injection helps. High quality oil and fuel help too. The big problem is routing that unburnt crap back into your engine (due to emission standards) to cool off and deposit on the intake valves. If not for that, DI engines would not be anywhere near as bad for carbon buildup.
Direct injection, carbon buildup, catch cans, EGR & PCV valves
- Thread starter duggydo
- Start date
Frankly, my new question is when PCV had baffles added. I spent a good amount of time searching and I couldn’t find an answer. Nor could I find a picture of a PCV baffle. It is what I found though, so I reported on it.
Blue Oval 5.0
Active member
Some of the turbo engines require Tier 1 gasoline which is only sold by some retailers. Popular chains near me like BP and Speedway do NOT sell Tier 1 gasoline so I had to go to Shell, which costs more per gallon of course…
Here's a question. I keep getting the pushback on the video being "well why do shops everywhere offer walnut shell blasting?" Or something to that effect. The thing is I've never seen a shop advertise this and when I Google it, there's one shop in Kansas City I found that offers it.
Has anyone seen a shop offer walnut shell blasting to clean the valves?
Most of the Google posts are old and related to first-gen GDI engines. Could it be that this issue was solved and we will stop hearing about in years to come?
Has anyone seen a shop offer walnut shell blasting to clean the valves?
Most of the Google posts are old and related to first-gen GDI engines. Could it be that this issue was solved and we will stop hearing about in years to come?
I think the walnut cleaning is mostly hype. The shops offering it are just jumping on the bandwagon. Like tire shops advertising "Nitrogen fill for your tires!" Is it really needed?
As for GDI valve carbon build up, I'm sure there are/were a few engines that the carbon build-up greatly affected operation and as usual with the internet, it went viral to all engines, everywhere, even port injection. (Engineering Explained points to VW turbos as one example) As with every new tech in cars, the initial problems usually get corrected on further designs. Like turbos from the 80's compared to now.
Fightnfire
Moderator
I think a lot of these issues are solved or being solved but will be replaced by new issues, eg: gas particulate filters. It wouldn't surprise me if the first generation or two of those cause reliability issues with certain brands. Though it will get solved if you're one of the unlucky ones who's truck is constantly in the shop with a GPF issue you'll never believe the engineers solved the issue in later years.
With all of the emissions controls, new requirements and demand for increased MPG the manufacturers are scrambling to incorporate those changes into their engines. They get better with each generation but there's also something new it seems with each generation.
Getty's recent video on the RAM SST shows a little of this. The new RAM SST has reduced towing by 1k pounds and 2k for the HO SST. Why? It has significantly more power. As a mechanic his theory is workload and duty cycle. Which makes ALOT of sense. If you're towing up a mountain a V8 is pretty happy cruising along at 3500-4500 RPM's for a while, it's built to handle that. They must not want the new SST to work that hard for that long. Is it cooling? We don't know yet.
Yeah, but aren't we all preaching that no one should be towing that much with a 1500 anyway? I'm glad they lowered it.
Best I can tell, Ford solved, or at least significantly reduced, the problem in the ecoboost engines with port injection. I asked my mechanic about cleaning the carbon off the valves on my 2011 F150 and he said there was really no cheap or easy way to do it right. I can understand why. It’s pretty risky to try and knock that stuff off and keep it out of the cylinder so no damage occurs. Removing the head is the best way and then if you mess up the valve seat, you are looking at machining work. I sold that truck.
Fightnfire
Moderator
Whether you should or shouldn't...RAM telling you that you can't is noteworthy. Back to that whole subjective vs. objective.
Sure. We know they lowered it, but we don't know why. Just another YT engineer....
I remember seeing a video a few years ago (Mr. Truck I think?) where one of the manufacturers had set up some actual objective standards a truck had to meet to obtain a towing rating. I don’t remember what they all are now other than a standard hill they used to check brakes and a towing run where they measured cooling ability. I don’t know if all manufacturers have these types of tests or not though.
Fightnfire
Moderator
Historically trailer ratings were more limited by cooling and brakes than by engine power. When it comes to towing the type of trailer is just as important as the weight. A flat bed trailer with pallets of concrete at 10k lbs is going to be much easier to tow with a half ton than a 10k lb travel trailer. The wind loves to toss them around plus all of the extra drag from it being so tall in the front compared to the truck.
That's exactly the sentiment I told to Ram's engineering team.
Also, towing is rated by J2807 standards which have all pivoted to not about the engine, but about cooling. One of the hardest parts of the test is driving the stretch at max load up a grade with warm temperatures without getting too hot. All automakers tell me it is the cooling that's more of an issue passing that test than the engine. Engines can run until they are cherry red hot.
I'd also suspect the primary drop in cooling is the turbos and that leads to less of a maximum towing capacity.
My question has long been what common towing operation is a half-ton truck owner doing that would exceed 10,000 lbs anyway? Pull-behind campers don't weigh that much and even then, towing safely is all about trailer sway with the longer load and the higher side panels. I'm not aware of many pull-behind trailers that you'd regularly toss 10,000 lbs of weight on it and tow with a half-ton.
Davis Dam test aka SAE J2807 standard which they all comply with: https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...sae-trailering-standards-explained-tech-dept/
Yes exactly. The rest of the truck hasn't changed and power has gone up so that just leaves cooling as the primary suspect on why towing has gone down.
These new engines are making way too much power for the displacement. I'll stick to my iron block hemi.
I once had a guy who was emailing me pics of his Tundra pulling a 5th wheel and stating how awesome it was the truck could pull 15,000 lbs. It was a BIG 5th wheel. He said people would stop by and take pictures of it with him. He also had an instagram account filled with pictures.You mean those ecoboosts towing 30' fifth wheels isn't a great idea?
He wanted me to do a video and share with everyone how awesome his truck was pulling that camper.
I explained to him me doing a video is the LAST thing he needs and I was deleting the photos from my computer. I said, “you are literally giving lawyers proof to sue you for knowingly exceeding the maximum towing rating. You are responsible for knowing your limits and there are law firms that look for this information. If you get into any sort of accident, you will be held liable through civil court to massive lawsuits.”
He emailed me back and said he hadn’t of that. I never heard from him again.
This. Could they make it work and even exceed the hemi? Sure, but at what cost for all the extra cooling when less than .0001% needs a truck to do that.
Fightnfire
Moderator
I just think it's a little odd that the 10ish year old Ecoboost can tow so much more, reliably, with the same MPG. I highly doubt RAM lowered the towing capacity of their new truck because "most people don't max the towing." They're testing had to have shown somewhere that the 3.0 SST couldn't maintain the same workload or duty cycle as the Hemi or other competitors.
To write off the reduction as "you shouldn't tow that much with a half ton" is a little silly.
I tow a 29' Travel Trailer that weighs around ( I cant remember if it's 6500 or 6800 dry) with an overall length of 34ish feet. It tows fine and I've never felt that I've needed more truck. By the time I get passengers and some gear in my truck it weighs about the same as the trailer. Having the standard (long) bed helps. I've hit nasty side winds in eastern Washington and I could feel it a lot, but my buddy with a similar trailer in his F250 in front of me said the same thing.
To write off the reduction as "you shouldn't tow that much with a half ton" is a little silly.
I tow a 29' Travel Trailer that weighs around ( I cant remember if it's 6500 or 6800 dry) with an overall length of 34ish feet. It tows fine and I've never felt that I've needed more truck. By the time I get passengers and some gear in my truck it weighs about the same as the trailer. Having the standard (long) bed helps. I've hit nasty side winds in eastern Washington and I could feel it a lot, but my buddy with a similar trailer in his F250 in front of me said the same thing.