Cummins settles for almost 2bil

Fightnfire

Fightnfire

Moderator
I cross posted this in the ram 2500 thread but this story is going to get crazy. Did RAM know? What will happen to these trucks? They'll have to be recalled at minimum and that sucks for current owners...

apnews.com

Engine maker Cummins agrees to pay $1.67 billion to settle claims it bypassed emissions tests

Engine manufacturer Cummins Inc. has agreed to pay an over $1.67 billion penalty to settle regulatory claims that the company unlawfully altered hundreds of thousands of pickup truck engines to bypass emissions tests.
apnews.com apnews.com
 
That puts RAM in a really, really tough spot. Cummins will survive because of their commercial business, but RAM has no other HD option at this time.

There is potential for their RAM Charger technology becoming applied to 2500/3500 pickups, but that is in the future.
 
Fightnfire said:
I cross posted this in the ram 2500 thread but this story is going to get crazy. Did RAM know? What will happen to these trucks? They'll have to be recalled at minimum and that sucks for current owners...

apnews.com

Engine maker Cummins agrees to pay $1.67 billion to settle claims it bypassed emissions tests

Engine manufacturer Cummins Inc. has agreed to pay an over $1.67 billion penalty to settle regulatory claims that the company unlawfully altered hundreds of thousands of pickup truck engines to bypass emissions tests.
apnews.com apnews.com
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Not very smart on Cummins part.
 
About how much HP and Torque is lost when the cheat device is disable? If it is a lot, how is that the diesels in Ford and GM are able to have more HP and Torque tan RAM?
 
Str8Shooter said:
About how much HP and Torque is lost when the cheat device is disable? If it is a lot, how is that the diesels in Ford and GM are able to have more HP and Torque tan RAM?
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I think that’s going to be the key issue. I remember when Ram had to recall the EcoDiesel over a similar issue and owner’s said their “fixed” truck wasn’t even close to what they had before.
 
Official recalls being sent out.. in California and presumably other CARB states you will not be able to register your vehicle until proof of the recall fix being performed by a dealer. This is a lot of trucks from I think 2013-2023

Ouch... if you've deleted your truck you can't get the recall fix.
 

Attachments

  • Chrysler recall 2.pdf
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  • RAM Recall Notice.pdf
    169.6 KB · Views: 4
Fightnfire said:
Official recalls being sent out.. in California and presumably other CARB states you will not be able to register your vehicle until proof of the recall fix being performed by a dealer. This is a lot of trucks from I think 2013-2023

Ouch... if you've deleted your truck you can't get the recall fix.
Click to expand...
Interesting thought on other CARB states needing the same emissions certificate California requires. I'll be curious to see if that's the way things work out.
 
I'm really interested on what they will do to the actual truck and what the results will be. Programming I'm assuming but noticeable reduction in power or not?
 
FNG here (sorry, with the military too long) and great information here. Also, Tim did a factual (not sensationalist piece) on it...Unlike "respected" TFL with their Ram "Rolling Coal" illustration and hyperbolic "Dieselgate 2.0" headline splash page. Too late to comment on the December TFL thread, but in my one dealing with them, I realized right away they are in the entertainment business first and foremost.
 
Interesting turn of events here. Truck King (Howard Elmer) owns a 2019 RAM 2500 which was recalled, however, the software was already fixed on the lot before he purchased it new in 2020. That's really interesting to anyone following this story...

I assume this means that though Cummins settled in 2023 they had been dealing with the DOJ for a few years before that on this issue. Obviously these things take years but I wonder how many other 2019-2022 RAM's were fixed before being sold?

 
This is just a tempest in a teapot. It's what happens when a bunch of unelected tree huggers get too big for their shoes.

As payment for "damaging" the environment, Cummins needs to replace roughly 30 to 40 diesel trains. Thinking that through, if almost a million Cummins over the course of a decade is doing the same damage as a few trains then maybe it's time to fix the trains/ships/yachts/personal jets and leave us consumers alone.

/end rant.
 
Fightnfire said:
Interesting turn of events here. Truck King (Howard Elmer) owns a 2019 RAM 2500 which was recalled, however, the software was already fixed on the lot before he purchased it new in 2020. That's really interesting to anyone following this story...

I assume this means that though Cummins settled in 2023 they had been dealing with the DOJ for a few years before that on this issue. Obviously these things take years but I wonder how many other 2019-2022 RAM's were fixed before being sold?

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I see we watched the same thing this morning. LOL. That was an interesting video and I know Howard personally. I could tell how not being told about the recall from the dealer was really aggravating to him. I don't know any dealer that would disclose that information frankly. I do know dealers are required to complete recalls before they sell a vehicle.

I commented on the video as well. It sure sounds to me like much ado about nothing. I mean, Elmer seems pretty pleased with this truck and now doesn't need to do anything about the recall. I do wonder what happens with the TFL series. They seem to have really jumped the gun now.
 
testerdahl said:
I see we watched the same thing this morning. LOL. That was an interesting video and I know Howard personally. I could tell how not being told about the recall from the dealer was really aggravating to him. I don't know any dealer that would disclose that information frankly. I do know dealers are required to complete recalls before they sell a vehicle.

I commented on the video as well. It sure sounds to me like much ado about nothing. I mean, Elmer seems pretty pleased with this truck and now doesn't need to do anything about the recall. I do wonder what happens with the TFL series. They seem to have really jumped the gun now.
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I find his response rather ridiculous. Does he expect that the manufacturer should detail every change to software code from the original design that has been done? If the same software change had been incorporated in the factory, prior to delivery to the dealer, it wouldn't even have a record of any "recall". Which is the exact case for many 2019 and the following MYs. Do we, as consumers, feel we deserve to know about every software or mechanical or design change that has been made from original serial# 001 to now?
 
Dusdaddy said:
I find his response rather ridiculous. Does he expect that the manufacturer should detail every change to software code from the original design that has been done? If the same software change had been incorporated in the factory, prior to delivery to the dealer, it wouldn't even have a record of any "recall". Which is the exact case for many 2019 and the following MYs. Do we, as consumers, feel we deserve to know about every software or mechanical or design change that has been made from original serial# 001 to now?
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Any changes to the truck that can affect resale value, or how it operates, yes definitely; I want to know about everything that happened to my truck after it leaves the factory. I don't think anybody is requesting information to a truck that hasn't left the factory.
 
zonedout said:
Any changes to the truck that can affect resale value, or how it operates, yes definitely; I want to know about everything that happened to my truck after it leaves the factory. I don't think anybody is requesting information to a truck that hasn't left the factory.
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I haven’t done a Carfax lately. Does anyone know if it shows software updates?
 
Dusdaddy said:
I find his response rather ridiculous. Does he expect that the manufacturer should detail every change to software code from the original design that has been done? If the same software change had been incorporated in the factory, prior to delivery to the dealer, it wouldn't even have a record of any "recall". Which is the exact case for many 2019 and the following MYs. Do we, as consumers, feel we deserve to know about every software or mechanical or design change that has been made from original serial# 001 to now?
Click to expand...

To a degree I get where you're coming from. However, if I put myself into the shoes of a RAM owner I would be really nervous over the last couple of months. Especially if like Howard I was trying to sell a RAM 2500. He looked up his VIN and saw his vehicle was recalled. Then, he later found out that the "fix" has already been done to his truck. He esentially found out he had been nervous for no reason and could get ZERO information on what the fix was.

I understand why he was irritated, I too would be.
 
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