Article from WSJ on Jeep & RAM... trouble?

Fightnfire

Fightnfire

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Wall Street Journal Article - RAM & Jeep

"Stellantis’s U.S. sales hovered below 9% of the U.S. market in the first quarter, and fell to 7.7% in April. That was down from around 10% last year and 12.5% in 2020, according to research firm Motor Intelligence—a massive decline in an industry where a half-point drop is enough to rattle car executives."

"But dealers say Stellantis’s pricing remains too high relative to rivals and is at the root of the market-share declines. Sticker prices on Ram pickup trucks moved higher than on Ford’s F-150 over the past few years, flipping the longtime pecking order in which Ram was often seen as the value play.

The average list price for a Ram 1500 recently was about $68,400, compared with $64,800 for an F-150, according to car-shopping site Edmunds."
 
Fightnfire said:
Wall Street Journal Article - RAM & Jeep

"Stellantis’s U.S. sales hovered below 9% of the U.S. market in the first quarter, and fell to 7.7% in April. That was down from around 10% last year and 12.5% in 2020, according to research firm Motor Intelligence—a massive decline in an industry where a half-point drop is enough to rattle car executives."

"But dealers say Stellantis’s pricing remains too high relative to rivals and is at the root of the market-share declines. Sticker prices on Ram pickup trucks moved higher than on Ford’s F-150 over the past few years, flipping the longtime pecking order in which Ram was often seen as the value play.

The average list price for a Ram 1500 recently was about $68,400, compared with $64,800 for an F-150, according to car-shopping site Edmunds."
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When you are chasing the 20% of the population that can afford a new vehicle pickins are mighty slim.
 
Hilux said:
When you are chasing the 20% of the population that can afford a new vehicle pickins are mighty slim.
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That's true, but they're all chasing the same pool and Stellantis has been underperforming significantly lately. That's the beautiful thing about percentages.
 
Fightnfire said:
Wall Street Journal Article - RAM & Jeep

"Stellantis’s U.S. sales hovered below 9% of the U.S. market in the first quarter, and fell to 7.7% in April. That was down from around 10% last year and 12.5% in 2020, according to research firm Motor Intelligence—a massive decline in an industry where a half-point drop is enough to rattle car executives."

"But dealers say Stellantis’s pricing remains too high relative to rivals and is at the root of the market-share declines. Sticker prices on Ram pickup trucks moved higher than on Ford’s F-150 over the past few years, flipping the longtime pecking order in which Ram was often seen as the value play.

The average list price for a Ram 1500 recently was about $68,400, compared with $64,800 for an F-150, according to car-shopping site Edmunds."
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RAM prices too high, yep I believe that for sure. Probably be able to make some deals if you were in the market.
 
Interest rates and lack of a big update play a role. Remember sales were up when they launched the new truck in 2019 and were strong for a year or two.

My thinking is Stellantis is the issue. They merged and since then haven’t brought out anything amazing from Ram or Jeep. Chrysler has one vehicle and Dodge is killing off their lineup for EVs. I think all those brands are in trouble with Stellantis in control.
 
testerdahl said:
Interest rates and lack of a big update play a role. Remember sales were up when they launched the new truck in 2019 and were strong for a year or two.

My thinking is Stellantis is the issue. They merged and since then haven’t brought out anything amazing from Ram or Jeep. Chrysler has one vehicle and Dodge is killing off their lineup for EVs. I think all those brands are in trouble with Stellantis in control.
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I agree, but is stellantis controlling the prices? Maybe they are, I don't know. I've been following this story for a while and it seemed obvious it was going to come back and bite them at some point, they've priced themselves out of their typical and target customer base specifically with Jeep and now RAM.
 
Fightnfire said:
I agree, but is stellantis controlling the prices? Maybe they are, I don't know. I've been following this story for a while and it seemed obvious it was going to come back and bite them at some point, they've priced themselves out of their typical and target customer base specifically with Jeep and now RAM.
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They have also stopped selling non-4xe Wranglers in many states due to CARB restrictions.
 
testerdahl said:
Interest rates and lack of a big update play a role. Remember sales were up when they launched the new truck in 2019 and were strong for a year or two.

My thinking is Stellantis is the issue. They merged and since then haven’t brought out anything amazing from Ram or Jeep. Chrysler has one vehicle and Dodge is killing off their lineup for EVs. I think all those brands are in trouble with Stellantis in control.
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This. You nailed it 100%!
 
I think they relied too much on the classic over the past couple of years. I don't know about elsewhere, but around me most of the new RAM sold were classics with a 2019+ every now and then. With RAM dropping the classic line, it's back to reality for them, and this is no good for Stellantis as only RAM and Jeep are bringing money in. Even then, Jeep and RAM are having issues moving inventory with their high prices.
 
testerdahl said:
Interest rates and lack of a big update play a role. Remember sales were up when they launched the new truck in 2019 and were strong for a year or two.

My thinking is Stellantis is the issue. They merged and since then haven’t brought out anything amazing from Ram or Jeep. Chrysler has one vehicle and Dodge is killing off their lineup for EVs. I think all those brands are in trouble with Stellantis in control.
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I also think Stellantis is the issue, to me it seems they brought the European mindset of auto to North America where the mindset is completely different, we have wider roads, longer highways, people like to tow things, people like to jump into their vehicles on a whim and go somewhere, most people over here don't like public transit like they are almost forced on in European countries, fuel and repairs are cheaper over here, there's a reason why there are more Europeans are wanting to emigrate to North America than people over here wanting to live in Europe, if you think government corruption is bad over here, is doesn't hold a candle to the size of corruption in Europe.
Beside Stellantis being a problem, there is still high interest rates, over pricing and government interference and ideology, none of this is a good mix for making a vehicle, just ask yourself and try to picture a car and its performance designed wholly by the government, you cant drink enough alcohol and do enough drugs to even picture that.
 
testerdahl said:
Incidentally I just saw a post from my colleagues about how the car culture isn’t dead and EVs will launch a bigger car culture than ever before. Yeah, not buying that.
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I think he's right, but the target audience will be much younger than the current car culture. It will add to it overall but I don't think it will overlap that much.
 
All of the recent launches from the company that have been newish/real updates Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, $65,000 two door Wranglers and Gladiators while killing their smaller SUVs with only the Compass now or only launching them in Europe all seem like major issues. Everything they have launched has been insanely priced. It does seem very strange. The 4xe issue is real as well. The cheapest Wrangler on the lot near me are 2 JKs, non 4xe, for $48000 with the next one at $60k. There are a few Compases under $30k though.
 
Beninbeta said:
All of the recent launches from the company that have been newish/real updates Jeep Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer, $65,000 two door Wranglers and Gladiators while killing their smaller SUVs with only the Compass now or only launching them in Europe all seem like major issues. Everything they have launched has been insanely priced. It does seem very strange. The 4xe issue is real as well. The cheapest Wrangler on the lot near me are 2 JKs, non 4xe, for $48000 with the next one at $60k. There are a few Compases under $30k though.
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Exactly. It's hard to tell if this is a Stellantis thing or a Jeep/RAM issue ... most likely both.
 
Fightnfire said:
It's just been really weird the last few years watching them out price their core customer base.
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One simple answer: They saw how it worked for Jeep and are hoping for the same result. Jeeps used to be cheap, utilitarian vehicles. About the time the 4-door Wrangler arrived, they became "hip" and the price kept climbing until now they are just ridiculous. A $70K Gladiator? Really? Even Toyota is not that shameful. The big difference with Ram is that Jeep Wranglers had no direct competition, Ram is already third class.
 
I also think it's the European mindset. Over there, Jeeps cost more and is rarer. (The Wrangler) So they think that is the market. The Renegade is their best seller over there and it wasn't a discount model.

Throw in how Germany/Daimler couldn't figure out the American market and I think they just don't get us.
 
Tim, Jill,

I watched your podcast where you were talking about Stellantis, and I've been a Jeep owner since 2014. I bought one Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk V6 2014 and updated it with a 2019 Trailhawk V6 Elite which I'm still driving for the last 6 years.

Since my wife and I work from home, we only need one vehicle, and that vehicle needs to perform everything we need. It needs to be fuel efficient (as fuel, where I am, is around $6.5 per US gallon), and be capable of easily towing up to 3000 pounds for winter toys and occasionally a camping trailer.

In 2014 and 2019, choices were very limited. 2 choices, Ford Edge (which I am not a fan of) or Jeep Cherokee. In that category, nothing much can tow more than two full trash cans, and they are supposed to be utilitarian, but aren’t other than being high on wheels and trunk space. The Cherokee with 4500 pounds towing capacity was the best option and it performs perfectly for me and is good on fuel.

You won’t believe how many you see pulling all sizes of trailers in my province.

Now, what are the choices with Stellantis, RAM truck? Jeep Grand Cherokee? Wrangler? too big, too expensive, too much fuel. Compass? Too small and has no towing capacity. The Jeep dealer calls me occasionally and I always tell them the same thing, you have nothing for me other than a leftover same old Cherokee. Sorry, I love small vehicles and don’t like big ones.

This is not only with Stellantis, but with all manufacturers, they push you in a pickup truck or a bigger SUV which I DO NOT NEED just because I need some towing capacity, but Stellantis has not many other good value products to offer compared to competition.

I do not want to put 70k-80k or more in the driveway which will be used only 10000 miles a year. Just a Colorado with similar equipment as my Jeep will cost me 60k+tx, so over 70k (not the highest trim). Electric is out of my price range for my needs and way too big (even my friends who are pro-electric agree with me).

The industry has a big reflection to do, but they DO NOT CARE! as I am not part of the mass consumers!
 
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