RHO for Tim

[James-kd2cm]

With the BW transfer cases, if it had 4wd Auto the front end engaged with clutches no matter the setting. Even in 4wdLock/4wdLow, the fronts do not get power until it senses slippage. Fine for 90% of users and I've had no issues. But guys using them to plow were burning up transfer cases quite frequently. The 48-13 model in the RHO can handle some real heavy tq. Looking forward to Tim's conversation with an engineer about it if possible. It always seems like brands try to blur how each mode functions.

That makes sense from my observations.Thanks for the clarification. I noticed a difference when I bring my boat up to my cottage. From the launch I have to make a 90degree turn and climb a sharp incline on a loose gravel driveway. I could use 4hi with the old truck and transfer case. With the new truck I have to use 4lo. The new truck’s transfer case would make waves in the loose gravel and sometimes force me to stop in 4hi. The locked transfer case in the old truck (with a 392 diff) would have much less problems. My boat rigged out with trailer fuel and gear is probably around 4K lbs.

 

[Fightnfire]

That makes sense from my observations.Thanks for the clarification. I noticed a difference when I bring my boat up to my cottage. From the launch I have to make a 90degree turn and climb a sharp incline on a loose gravel driveway. I could use 4hi with the old truck and transfer case. With the new truck I have to use 4lo. The new truck’s transfer case would make waves in the loose gravel and sometimes force me to stop in 4hi. The locked transfer case in the old truck (with a 392 diff) would have much less problems. My boat rigged out with trailer fuel and gear is probably around 4K lbs.

That's also a known RAM issue with their (older) 4WD system. I believe they addressed it in 2020 or 2021 models, but I'm not a RAM expert. Basically, when in 4HI or 4Auto it's looking for slip but the they seemed to be worried about the stress on the clutch pack in trucks with 4Auto and would consistently/regularly cut power when turning the wheels in 4Auto or 4Hi or under heavy stress. My 2021 GMC also has 4 Auto but I couldn't replicate his issues in the RAM.

Getty Adventures has a series of videos on this topic that I remember watching:

 

[James-kd2cm]

That's also a known RAM issue with their (older) 4WD system. I believe they addressed it in 2020 or 2021 models, but I'm not a RAM expert. Basically, when in 4HI or 4Auto it's looking for slip but the they seemed to be worried about the stress on the clutch pack in trucks with 4Auto and would consistently/regularly cut power when turning the wheels in 4Auto or 4Hi or under heavy stress. My 2021 GMC also has 4 Auto but I couldn't replicate his issues in the RAM.

Getty Adventures has a series of videos on this topic that I remember watching:

Good video. Mine is a 2023.. it does bind up on tight turns in 4hi. I think with my steep incline, 90 degree turn, loose gravel, pulling a boat of significant weight makes it work too hard on 4hi. If I put it in 4 low it’s much better. As I had suspected the old 48-12 transfer case with the 392 back end had way less problem but could still slip a bit. My new truck has a 321 Diff.
I knew I was giving up some off road chops with this truck but in my area of Canada I was turning from 2wd to 4hi and back a lot due to the changing conditions in my area most of the winter. I wanted the 4auto for the mixed winter driving. In my area the main roads are frequently bare and dry but all of the side streets are snowy or icy. Personal choice I guess. I also didn’t want to pay Rebel money at the time..lol

 

[testerdahl]

With the BW transfer cases, if it had 4wd Auto the front end engaged with clutches no matter the setting. Even in 4wdLock/4wdLow, the fronts do not get power until it senses slippage. Fine for 90% of users and I've had no issues. But guys using them to plow were burning up transfer cases quite frequently. The 48-13 model in the RHO can handle some real heavy tq. Looking forward to Tim's conversation with an engineer about it if possible. It always seems like brands try to blur how each mode functions.

Interview is set for Friday morning. I'll probably hold it until Saturday since I want to do a truck news recap video that day.

 

[testerdahl]

This was a bit of a surprise.

 

[testerdahl]

Good video. Mine is a 2023.. it does bind up on tight turns in 4hi. I think with my steep incline, 90 degree turn, loose gravel, pulling a boat of significant weight makes it work too hard on 4hi. If I put it in 4 low it’s much better. As I had suspected the old 48-12 transfer case with the 392 back end had way less problem but could still slip a bit. My new truck has a 321 Diff.
I knew I was giving up some off road chops with this truck but in my area of Canada I was turning from 2wd to 4hi and back a lot due to the changing conditions in my area most of the winter. I wanted the 4auto for the mixed winter driving. In my area the main roads are frequently bare and dry but all of the side streets are snowy or icy. Personal choice I guess. I also didn’t want to pay Rebel money at the time..lol

My friend Ryan at Driving Sports noticed the same thing with his Ford Ranger Raptor. One of the commenters said he worked for Ford and Roush. He pointed out the reason for this was to protect the drivetrain from damage through overheating. I summarized for sure. It is a longer explanation but that's the gist.

 

[Dusdaddy]

That's also a known RAM issue with their (older) 4WD system. I believe they addressed it in 2020 or 2021 models, but I'm not a RAM expert. Basically, when in 4HI or 4Auto it's looking for slip but the they seemed to be worried about the stress on the clutch pack in trucks with 4Auto and would consistently/regularly cut power when turning the wheels in 4Auto or 4Hi or under heavy stress. My 2021 GMC also has 4 Auto but I couldn't replicate his issues in the RAM.

Getty Adventures has a series of videos on this topic that I remember watching:

In all fairness, this applies to all transfer cases that have the "auto" mode. They all use clutches to engage the front end and require some wheel spin to engage. And clutches can heat up and fail. The ones without the auto mode like the Ram Rebel or Toyota Tundra have solid engagement systems. The Auto style transfer cases are great for those who have winter driving needs as they can leave it engaged so it's always available. The solid lock up style is better for the hard-core off-roaders who want the front to have power without having to spin the rear-wheels. It seems that the RHO just removed any 2wd mode.

 

[Fightnfire]

In all fairness, this applies to all transfer cases that have the "auto" mode. They all use clutches to engage the front end and require some wheel spin to engage. And clutches can heat up and fail. The ones without the auto mode like the Ram Rebel or Toyota Tundra have solid engagement systems. The Auto style transfer cases are great for those who have winter driving needs as they can leave it engaged so it's always available. The solid lock up style is better for the hard-core off-roaders who want the front to have power without having to spin the rear-wheels. It seems that the RHO just removed any 2wd mode.

You're right in that they're all similar in theory/design but a lot of it is software and/or hardware limitations, the previous gen RAM was pretty poor. The new one now sounds like it's on par with the rest.

Auto is fantastic for mixed snow/ice conditions for sure.

 

[James-kd2cm]

This was a bit of a surprise.

Great video Tim.
I’m surprised that they don’t give you an option for regular cruise. I’m in an area where the sensors get covered by ice and slush a lot…
That being said, old school wisdom was don’t use cruise in any conditions where it can get slippery. I’ve been in a vehicle twice when cruise
Started spinning my tires (not current model cars). One on black ice driving uphill on a freeway at night at about 65 mph… scary. The other when my old mustang’s rear tire caught a bit of slush I was straddling in the center of the lane (my bad). Both times able to regain control easily.
I’ve used adaptive cruise before and liked it. But… my current vehicles only have regular cruise. For me it’s not a have to have.
It sure would be nice to be able to choose what kind of cruise control you want to use.
The subscription services everyone is pushing is a negative for me… it’s one of the reasons I upgraded my car and my wife’s car in 2023 before some car services become too subscription dependant.

 

[Fightnfire]

Not having regular cruise is a little bit of a shocker to me. Don't get me wrong I love adaptive cruise but it definitely has his downsides. The first being as you pointed out in my area even on frozen mornings with no snow or ice it doesn't work until the truck is completely dethawed which doesn't happen on my 15-mile commute to work.. I love it on long road trips but I do think it cost me MPG compared to regular cruise. It annoys me that sometimes I find myself going way slower than I want because it just keeps backing off of people. If I'm in regular cruise control and I come up on somebody I'm prompted to go around them in adaptive it's so smooth I find myself pacing people doing five under the speed limit for a few miles and I just find that annoying lol.

 

[Dusdaddy]

You're right in that they're all similar in theory/design but a lot of it is software and/or hardware limitations, the previous gen RAM was pretty poor. The new one now sounds like it's on par with the rest.

Auto is fantastic for mixed snow/ice conditions for sure.

Getty made a bigger deal out of it than it really is. The 44-44 really isn't much different than the 48-11 that is in there now. Even in 4wdLock, you still need wheel speed differential to engage the front diff but it just happens faster now is all. Clutches still burn up when abused, just fact of life. Personally, I'd rather have a legit Full-time system.

I know Ford runs the BW similar to the Ram. What's your GM use and do they offer locking models or just the clutch style?

 

[Dusdaddy]

If I'm in regular cruise control and I come up on somebody I'm prompted to go around them in adaptive it's so smooth I find myself pacing people doing five under the speed limit for a few miles and I just find that annoying lol.

The absolute biggest negative to adaptive: Not noticing you are slowing down so much. It took me awhile to get used to just passing if I came up on anyone as soon as possible.

I'm guessing that all the brands will slowly switch to just adaptive cruise. I think someone said the Ranger Raptor only has ACC. Once it is equipped on every model, why bother offering the lesser version will be their reasoning. Just like manual trannys.

 

[Fightnfire]

The absolute biggest negative to adaptive: Not noticing you are slowing down so much. It took me awhile to get used to just passing if I came up on anyone as soon as possible.

I'm guessing that all the brands will slowly switch to just adaptive cruise. I think someone said the Ranger Raptor only has ACC. Once it is equipped on every model, why bother offering the lesser version will be their reasoning. Just like manual trannys.

I also think that's where the hit to MPG comes from especially when I'm towing my trailer. The slowdowns when a human could judge it better and not need to slow down.

 

[Fightnfire]

Getty made a bigger deal out of it than it really is. The 44-44 really isn't much different than the 48-11 that is in there now. Even in 4wdLock, you still need wheel speed differential to engage the front diff but it just happens faster now is all. Clutches still burn up when abused, just fact of life. Personally, I'd rather have a legit Full-time system.

I know Ford runs the BW similar to the Ram. What's your GM use and do they offer locking models or just the clutch style?

They have both depending on what you buy but I honestly can't find who manufactures the transfer case. I spend quite a bit of time playing in the snow and haven't noticed any cuts of power to the front, the clutch transfer cases definitely have their limitations though compared to locking it in. I just think the pros outweigh the cons as you said especially in the PNW.

 

[Dusdaddy]

They have both depending on what you buy but I honestly can't find who manufactures the transfer case. I spend quite a bit of time playing in the snow and haven't noticed any cuts of power to the front, the clutch transfer cases definitely have their limitations though compared to locking it in. I just think the pros outweigh the cons as you said especially in the PNW.

I think it's Magna Powertrain. Hence the MP3024 designation.

 

[Fightnfire]

I think it's Magna Powertrain. Hence the MP3024 designation.

That's what I assumed but I couldn't actually find it, when I looked up the 3024 it showed for the 2500/3500.

 

[TheDo114]

So when you have auto 4wd, even if you go into 4 low you rely on a clutch pack?

Adaptative cruise control is fantastic in heavy traffic and sucks when doing long road trips. Thankfully, most manufacturers include a way to switch to regular cruise control even when you have adaptative. Useful for when the sensors are block or if you're travelling over long distances.

 

[Hilux]

So when you have auto 4wd, even if you go into 4 low you rely on a clutch pack?

Adaptative cruise control is fantastic in heavy traffic and sucks when doing long road trips. Thankfully, most manufacturers include a way to switch to regular cruise control even when you have adaptative. Useful for when the sensors are block or if you're travelling over long distances.

The Freightliner Cascadia I used to drive had adaptive cruise control and regular cruise control, it was pretty nice feature.

 

[Dusdaddy]

So when you have auto 4wd, even if you go into 4 low you rely on a clutch pack?

Adaptative cruise control is fantastic in heavy traffic and sucks when doing long road trips. Thankfully, most manufacturers include a way to switch to regular cruise control even when you have adaptative. Useful for when the sensors are block or if you're travelling over long distances.

Yep. Even the Ranger Raptor or Chevy ZR2 works with clutches. Basically, anything with the 4wd Auto has to. One exception I've heard is the full-size Raptor. In Auto it uses clutches but has a mechanical lock for 4H/4L.

But I'd still take a 4wd Auto over not, just too damn convenient.

 

[Dusdaddy]

Adaptative cruise control is fantastic in heavy traffic and sucks when doing long road trips. Thankfully, most manufacturers include a way to switch to regular cruise control even when you have adaptative. Useful for when the sensors are block or if you're travelling over long distances.

One great feature of ACC that I stumbled into. My son was following me home from hunting camp and I was pulling our trailer. I was speeding up on downhills and slowing down on corners and uphills. He was able to just set it and forget it and stay at a nice even distance from me the whole time without doing anything. So, when following someone, you let them set their cruise to whatever and you just overshoot their speed but let the ACC keep you right on their butt effortlessly.