The tariffs happened!

Fightnfire said:
I hear you and I think we agree on most points other than the tariffs. From day one I've said, somewhere on this forum, that I saw this as purely a negotiating tactic, and from my perspective a needed one. I've also thought there were going to be some short term reprocussions. From the vehicle maufacturer perspective several have already said they are moving production in some way back to the US. As well as foreign investments being made into various industries which is also good. I think this is a long term win, or more, a return to what should have been all along speaking specifically to the items you mentioned.

The cost analogy wasn't as much about price and how it got there it's that price will be determined by the consumer, not the seller. They can choose to pass the tariff on but my gut tells me they've already paid millions to market researchers that have told them they are already at, or over, the price threshold for a new pickup in this country.

The manufacturers trends tend to come in waves. An off-road version of a truck sells well, think 2020 & FX-4, Trail Boss, PRO-4X and then every manufacturer jumps on that wagon. Tremor, AT4X, Trail Hunter, Rebel etc. etc. etc. The prices surge because of demand and the profits soar. Now, it seems like the focus is shifting back towards value and mid-range. The consumer sets the price, it's the manufacturers job to align themselves with it. Just like the pearl diver.
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Well said, I wish I could write like this.

I guess all that's left is to wait and see. 🍻
 
TheDo114 said:
Well said, I wish I could write like this.

I guess all that's left is to wait and see. 🍻
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My problem with tariffs is simple: what was broken that they are attempting to fix? To me it seems like we're using a sledgehammer to try to kill a fly. Very little result but a huge impact. To determine if they work, you have to identify something that is wrong. The UK deal? Well now, the UK people will pay less for US products as the overall tariffs going to them dropped. Our end went up so we will pay more. Mission accomplished?

Bring back manufacturing? Well, the last estimate is there are 400,000 manufacturing jobs open right now.
Increase federal income? Sure, but it's paid by us so why not just raise taxes as it's effectively the same.
 
Nobody wants to pay more just to "prove a point." But this isn’t about killing a fly with a sledgehammer more like a hornets nest growing out of control in China that is 100% subsidized by their government. Why target the UK and Canada among others? Their reliance like ours on cheap overseas manufacturing is hurting all of us.. and they aren't and have't been paying their end of the deal with defense. The real issue is we gave up too much control over stuff we actually need. Steel, chips, drivetrains, parts etc. Anyone who’s tried to fix a truck or order parts in the last couple years knows how fragile the system is when everything’s made overseas.

Yeah, we’ve got manufacturing jobs open but that’s a good thing. The work is coming back, and now we have to train people up. Ford and GM didn’t drop billions on U.S. plants for fun, they’re reacting to pressure. For the first time I can remember the trades are being offered to kids in high school as viable career options. My son is going to be participating in a carbon fiber program back up by companies like Boeing, Space X and other large aero and transportation companies. It's a 2 year program that can roll into a 4 year. Really cool opportunities.

The UK deal helps us too especially in aerospace and opening markets for the US companies. It's about the long game. If tariffs help us stop bleeding capacity and regain leverage, I’ll take that trade.
 
Fightnfire said:
For the first time I can remember the trades are being offered to kids in high school as viable career options. My son is going to be participating in a carbon fiber program back up by companies like Boeing, Space X and other large aero and transportation companies. It's a 2 year program that can roll into a 4 year. Really cool opportunities.
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That's really cool about your kid. They have had a diesel, home construction and agriculture programs through the high schools here going back 40 years.
 
Don't kid yourself, the majority of the work is not coming back. It's too far gone. You can say some companies have brought things back but then Ford has announced price increases for Mexico made vehicles. The only losers will be consumers. We are a free-market country so we will always have less leverage in trade than the government-controlled countries. That's life as we choose it and we prefer it.
 
Is it good news, or just smoke and mirrors to please someone in the White House?

It was announced that Honda is moving some production back from Canada to the U.S. At first glance, this appeared to be a win for the President. However, the story doesn't end there.

With the U.S. now facing retaliatory tariffs from various international markets due to its trade policies, Honda sees an opportunity: shift international production out of the U.S. and increase output in other countries to serve non-U.S. markets.

According to the Financial Post, Honda Canada could actually benefit from U.S. tariffs by increasing exports. They may also gain an edge in Canada without tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum, making parts and production more cost-effective.

Honda Canada could see export opportunities from US tariffs | Financial Post

The reality is, you can't build everything in the U.S. and expect to export globally without consequences. Eventually, it will impact pricing and disrupt global distribution. and p.. off partners!
 
Dusdaddy said:
Great. That'll just be a reason to raise prices again. No benefit in it when they can't fill their factory jobs now. I'm guessing they'll drag it out until the next election.
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Was watching CNN last night, and was just thinking about that, but maybe while bringing back factories from Mexico to USA, they will bring as well the Mexican workers to fill-up the positions into the new USA factories :rolleyes:

So for fun, I throwed my text into ChatGPT and it was very surprising what it responded.

==================================================================

That's a sharp observation — and you're not far off from what often happens in practice.

While "reshoring" factories from Mexico (or other countries) back to the U.S. is framed as a win for American jobs, the reality is more complex. U.S. manufacturing often struggles to fill skilled or even entry-level positions due to labor shortages, wage expectations, and a declining interest in factory work. So yes, companies may push for or quietly rely on immigrant labor — including from Mexico — to fill those gaps.

In fact, some U.S. sectors already depend heavily on foreign-born workers, especially in agriculture, construction, and increasingly, manufacturing. If companies relocate factories but can't hire enough local workers, lobbying for more work visas or informal reliance on immigrant labor could very well be part of the unspoken plan.

So your tongue-in-cheek comment is actually a pretty realistic scenario: move the factory and the workforce.
 
I don't understand the digging in on some topics if I'm being honest.

An American company announces they are investing $4 Billion into local US based factories that, according to what articles are saying, was not in the works a year ago. That's $4 Billion investment in US manufacturing and production capacity. Sure, there can be questions about what it's going to look like, if they will pull production from Mex or Can and how they fill those jobs. However, at the end of the day it's a $4 Billion dollar investment that could have gone elsewhere. We've seen this type of investment leave the US many, many times over the last decade. It's nice to see it come home.

Would you rather they announce a mutli billion dollar investment into production facilities in Mexico or any other foregin country?
 
Fightnfire said:
I don't understand the digging in on some topics if I'm being honest.

An American company announces they are investing $4 Billion into local US based factories that, according to what articles are saying, was not in the works a year ago. That's $4 Billion investment in US manufacturing and production capacity. Sure, there can be questions about what it's going to look like, if they will pull production from Mex or Can and how they fill those jobs. However, at the end of the day it's a $4 Billion dollar investment that could have gone elsewhere. We've seen this type of investment leave the US many, many times over the last decade. It's nice to see it come home.

Would you rather they announce a mutli billion dollar investment into production facilities in Mexico or any other foreign country?
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What they do and where they do it doesn't bother me at all. It's a worldwide economy that has Milwaukee tools made in China. We've seen plenty of this before but honestly, it just doesn't mean much. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if they do it, they'll do it purely for the money. This isn't about American jobs, it never is.
 
Dusdaddy said:
What they do and where they do it doesn't bother me at all. It's a worldwide economy that has Milwaukee tools made in China. We've seen plenty of this before but honestly, it just doesn't mean much. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that if they do it, they'll do it purely for the money. This isn't about American jobs, it never is.
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I guess I don't care if it's for their profit or not, like you I tend to think of course it is, but at the end of the day, it's still an investment at home. That's better than more investment overseas or in Mexico and that's only a good thing.
 
Fightnfire said:
As a direct result of tariff's and wanting to move production back to the US from Mexico and Canada GM invests 4 billion in US plants:

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Did you notice that they announced a $4b investment in Orion, Michigan back in 2023?

So, actually the $4B investment from your news article is smaller than the announcement from this week for U.S. manufacturing.

pickuptrucktalk.com

GM invests $4B in U.S. plants for trucks, SUVs, shuffles EVs

As consumer's buying changes, GM invests $4B in U.S. plants for trucks and gasoline SUVs while shuffling future plans for EV production.
pickuptrucktalk.com pickuptrucktalk.com
 
It’s all a numbers game.

What concerns me isn’t the local U.S. market, but rather the exposure these factories now face in export markets. Investment will always be necessary as models and technologies evolve, requiring ongoing factories’ upgrades and capital injection. However, building major new facilities to serve both local and global demand could be a risky, if not outright reckless move, especially given the pressure to deliver returns to investors and keep cost low.

I’m holding my breath to see how the plan unfolds, especially from a person who has filed for bankruptcy six or seven times.

Only time will tell how it all plays out.
 
Einstein said:
It’s all a numbers game.

What concerns me isn’t the local U.S. market, but rather the exposure these factories now face in export markets. Investment will always be necessary as models and technologies evolve, requiring ongoing factories’ upgrades and capital injection. However, building major new facilities to serve both local and global demand could be a risky, if not outright reckless move, especially given the pressure to deliver returns to investors and keep cost low.

I’m holding my breath to see how the plan unfolds, especially from a person who has filed for bankruptcy six or seven times.

Only time will tell how it all plays out.
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I could be wrong but in the articles I've read I think this is an investment in current facilities and moving production around mostly from planned production in Mexico back to the US. I'm not entirely sure what the other plan your referencing is or the bankruptcy comments, GM has only filed for bankruptcy once as far as I can remember.

This is about GM investing billions back into US manufacturing and production.
 
Einstein said:
The big plan of M. Trump ;) as he is the one that files for bankruptcy multiple times
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Unlike a Gates, Bezos or Zuckeberg type which all had an extremely successful singular businesses, Trump was/is heavy into real estate, casinos and property development & management which is a very different beast. There's been four that I know of (some were the same company in the same period) and were all shown to be outside of his control and the best decision for everyone involved. Here's an official report:

| ABI

www.abi.org www.abi.org

"PolitiFact took a look at all four of Trump’s Chapter 11 bankruptcies and determined that they were a result of business struggles largely beyond the billionaire-turned-presidential-candidate’s control"

I wasn't quite sure how we got from GM investment to Trump bankruptcies, I wasn't following.
 
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